How much profit is there on the Bolt EV for GM?

As I sit around thinking about the Bolt, and waiting for EPA numbers to be released and for pre-orders to open up, I think of things

Here's my quick calculation on the profit that might be in the Bolt for Chevrolet....

Start with the price of a nicely optioned Chevy Sonic
$20,000

Subtract engine, transmission, fuel system etc
- $2000 or more

Add 60 kWh of battery pack at $145 per kWh
+ $8700

Add packaging, thermal energy battery management
+ $2300

Add 7.2 kWh on-board charger
+ $500

Add electric motor
$2000?

Total:
$31,500

Then of course there's the amortization of the billions that GM spent on developing the vehicle, and if there's really only a 30,000 per year production run for the Bolt then that will also add a substantial amount per vehicle to the overall cost seen by GM.

Well, they are making money on the sonic, and your numbers are as good a guess as any, so I guess GM are making $7K on the car with MSRP and dealer is making $3K with no discount. Of course, like all new cars, they are losing money due to initial investment till they make it back later. And it goes without saying they make off with lots of CARB credits in California, so that's a good bit of $ too.

Without the CARB credits, the picture would be pretty bleak, especially when counting for the $billions spent on development.

Some of your numbers are off. For example, a motor controller can easily cost $4000-$5000 for a 200 horsepower system.

Also, vehicle computer and infotainment system costs are probably higher than the Sonic.

I think it's an unspoken rule of thumb that down-market cars don't make any money the first year on the market. Things improve once the startup costs are amortized away.

I doubt GM is going to lose much money on the Bolt EV, however, (unlike the Fiat 500e that cost Fiat $15000 each). If they were going to lose money, then they'd only offer it as a CARB compliance vehicle in California (like the Fiat, Honda Fit EV etc). According to GM, they are targeting at least 20,000 or 30,000 in the first year.

Perhaps that's a reason why GM waited so long to introduce a pure electric vehicle. It could only be profitable for them once the battery costs came down, so they started with a small battery pack vehicle - the Volt.

R&D/adaptation costs of existing EV technology developed by Chevy to apply to the Bolt or Spark wouldn't be as high as new, bespoke design.

In my Spark EV, I see many aspects of the Volt technology. The Bolt will likely leverage the motor design and fabrication processes from the Spark.

Much of the control codes are reusable. And of course GM has thousands of man-hours of expertise in the basic running gear of the Bolt platform.

And overall, they can deduct certain development costs through amortization, write-offs etc.

I doubt they will bleed money from bringing the Bolt to market and when/if the number of units sold start to deliver economies of scale from suppliers, they should do well. Dealerships may not be so enthusiastic since the repair/maintenance record of EVs is much better than the typical IC vehicle.

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf. GM has put in a bigger battery in the Bolt, but they will make more money on the car then most of us think.

Limbster said:

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf.

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I find this questionable. You're saying that a gas tank + ICE is the same cost to VW as an electric motor + 24.2kWh battery?

GetOffYourGas said:

Limbster said:

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf.

Click to expand...

I find this questionable. You're saying that a gas tank + ICE is the same cost to VW as an electric motor + 24.2kWh battery?

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Yes

Limbster said:

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf

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Link please?

SmartElectric said:

Limbster said:

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf

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Link please?

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Sorry, no link. A friend that works in the Industry. The car dealers margin is still bad. WV is making double money on selling an e-Golf but the dealer less.

Limbster said:

SmartElectric said:

Limbster said:

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf

Click to expand...

Link please?

Click to expand...

Sorry, no link. A friend that works in the Industry. The car dealers margin is still bad. WV is making double money on selling an e-Golf but the dealer less.

Click to expand...

Third hand proclamations from an unknown person are not much to go on, and I don't believe it for a moment.

Raw battery costs are $5K plus. And that's before being assembled into a pack, VW did save by going with completely passive pack cooling (like the LEAF), but you still have:
Motor
Final Drive
Inverter
On board charger
Regen braking system
Fly by wire systems
BMS system and software
And the cost of engineering/designing/production on a low volume product.

Limbster said:

SmartElectric said:

Limbster said:

For WV, the cost to produce an eGolf is the same as a gasoline Golf

Click to expand...

Link please?

Click to expand...

Sorry, no link. A friend that works in the Industry. The car dealers margin is still bad. WV is making double money on selling an e-Golf but the dealer less.

Click to expand...

You'll have to forgive me as I remain skeptical of this claim. Based on the known costs of batteries and power electronics (like the 7kW charger and the inverter), I believe that both VW and their dealers make less profit on the eGolf as compared to the gasoline Golf. That could change in the not-too-distant future, of course, as production ramps up across the industry.

The auto industry may give a hint at their costs, when they are dumping stripped(?) cars, making room for the new year's vehicles. I've seen 2015 Chevy Spark ICE cars advertised ~ $8000+. After the 2008 recession started, one Hyundai dealer advertised TWO Accents for $14,000. Lately, I saw an Elantra down to $11,000. Anyone else see really low loss-leader sales that have to give ideas to construction costs?