Dammit! Is my Bolt a lemon?!

Say it ain't so, but at less than 500 miles on the car, the service light came on. Thinking it was something stupid like the breaker tripping on the charging station at my work, because that would trigger an error on my Spark EV, I just read and reset them. Done....or was it?!?!?!?

The codes were powertrain faults P0D6B and P1E00 - I figured these were probably nothing, seeing as the car is NEW, so I reset them, and 6 miles later, they were back. So... great.... I called Onstar, and they said they were the battery conditioning system (just great) and that it was advised to "service in one day" and asked me if I felt safe in the car and if I wanted roadside assistance. Great.

I took it to service this morning, and they finally got around to taking a first look with only about an hour left in their day. There were mumblings of a bulletin about this, and although the tech admitted he had not fully diagnosed it, he said it was actually the CABIN heater and not the battery heater that was malfunctioning, though oddly the heat seemed to be working fine for the cabin.

Here's the fun part that makes me think it's the battery heater (as per the Onstar operator)


This is the chart. The big draw is around 9 PM, that's the bulk charging of the car, off peak. Then, every morning, just before dawn when it's the absolute coldest, we get these little power draw events at about 6:00, maybe 2kw or so for a half hour to 45 minutes. This seems like something that makes sense, and then of course the big spike at about 9:00 AM when I remote start the car. All good, right? Well, this morning, no 6:00 AM warm-up, just quiet, and it sure as heck wasn't any warmer than any other night this week.

Hopefully by tomorrow, they'll have fully diagnosed it. I have a sinking suspicion that I'll be waiting for a part to come in, and that it's not the cabin heater as they stated, and it's NOT cool that I let it get too cold overnight, so...great.

I will post updates.

PS - If anybody wants to troll my EVSE, which is where I got the graph, my ugly homemade status screen is HERE
https://emoncms.org/dashboard/view&id=29702

Not totally uncommon. The 2014 LEAFs had an issue where somebody at the factory forgot to hook up the A/C drainage tube and it resulted in puddles inside the cabin. Hopefully this is just a bad component or a connector.

Are you parked outside? What are the temps we are talking about?

We still haven't brought the car in for the heater light. There is not functional evidence of a problem, but for the annoying alert sound.
We plan on bring the car in soon, but have over 1K miles on it with no other issues, but for the window fogging nuisance.
The light first went on maybe day 2 with the car.

I park in my driveway. I live in Los Angeles, so the temperatures rarely drop below freezing for more than a few hours, and only on the coldest nights.

Another day, another different story from the service department. This time they're saying it's the air conditioner compressor, which...OK, I mean, I guess they could heat the battery with a heat pump? They would certainly cool it that way if it required anything more than passive cooling. So they want to keep it for a while, and GM is requesting "Serial data" because my air conditioner is broken, and that's what's triggering the power-train errors? And I'm getting Onstar messages on my phone saying it's a battery problem. Just got a new one today in fact.

SO, I'm still in a rental, and I have my misgivings about the training of the guys working on my car, or at least in their ability to communicate with management.

Pigwich said:

I park in my driveway. I live in Los Angeles, so the temperatures rarely drop below freezing for more than a few hours, and only on the coldest nights.

Another day, another different story from the service department. This time they're saying it's the air conditioner compressor, which...OK, I mean, I guess they could heat the battery with a heat pump? They would certainly cool it that way if it required anything more than passive cooling. So they want to keep it for a while, and GM is requesting "Serial data" because my air conditioner is broken, and that's what's triggering the power-train errors? And I'm getting Onstar messages on my phone saying it's a battery problem. Just got a new one today in fact.

SO, I'm still in a rental, and I have my misgivings about the training of the guys working on my car, or at least in their ability to communicate with management.

Click to expand...

Well I hope they are treating you right. Might be worth talking nicely to the service manager and pleading your case to be in the loop with communication with GM (if you want to be that is). Letting them know you are "blogging" about your adventures and the service you are receiving...

GM should be all over early adopter problems like this, if only because they can't afford bad press, and they should be anxious to discover quickly whether they have any engineering problems. Please let us know how they treat you.

OK, so now the service department said the problem is now the air conditioner. RIIIIIIGHT. GM is interested in getting "Some serial data" from the car "cause it's so new", so they're going to keep it for a while. Probably a lot longer than I'd like, because I smell a hint of dummy.

So far, I guess given all things, I've been treated OK. GM seems keenly interested in getting this taken care of.
Of course, at the dealership, Alley Gwynn in Glendale, where I went to for service, the usual service manager Michael who I've worked with in the past and who is a fantastic guy, got his first day off in months, and some dismissive d-bag took his place, but whatever, we'll see Monday.

I have been treated well though. They put me in some F-tupp Malibu from Enterprise that looked like it was driven off a few curbs, but with 30,000 miles. When it became apparent that the car was going to be there for a while, they put me in a Cruz which is much more reasonable. Props to them.

So I'm waiting. I swore I wasn't going to get a first model year of anything, but then I had the sneaking suspicion that we won't be getting that federal subsidy come 2018... so here we sit.

This is the early adopter's lament with any new tech product. You have to know from the outset that you are volunteering to be a beta tester and hope that the company will be anxious to make things right with the product, and to treat you right along the way. Never having dealt with GM before that's a totally open question to me.

In any event electronics tend to fail either very early or late in their life cycles, so I hope what you are seeing is simply a bad part that can be replaced and not a deeper issue that could result in a recall.

Are you absolutely sure about the first DTC being P0D6B ??? I can't find that DTC in the GM Manual


Here's the DTC info for P1E00. Double check the first DTC and let me know if it's correct, because I think it's wrong.

DTC P0AC4, P1E00, P25A2, P25C9, or P26C8

Diagnostic Instructions

Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each of the diagnostic category.

DTC Descriptor

DTC P0AC4

Hybrid/EV Powertrain Control Module Requested MIL Illumination
DTC P1E00

Hybrid/EV Powertrain Control Module 2 Requested MIL Illumination
DTC P25A2

Brake System Control Module Requested MIL Illumination
DTC P25C9

Brake System Control Module 2 Requested MIL Illumination
DTC P26C8

Chassis Control Module Requested MIL Illumination

Circuit/System Description

Control modules constantly monitor the vehicle for any condition which may adversely affect vehicle performance. If a condition is detected, the module sets a DTC and sends a serial data message to the engine control module (ECM). The ECM sets a DTC to inform the technician that the module has set a DTC. The serial data message sent by the module also contains a request for the ECM to illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL).

The technician can observe the DTC that was set by the module by reviewing the ECM Freeze Frame records on the scan tool. The ECM Freeze Frame records also contain the engine operating conditions present when the DTC set.

Conditions for Running the DTC

The vehicle is ON for greater than 3 s.
These DTCs run continuously.

Conditions for Setting the DTC

The ECM receives a serial data message from a specific module indicating that DTC has set in the module.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

DTCs P0AC4, P1E00, P25A2, P25C9, or P26C8 are Type A DTCs.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

DTCs P0AC4, P1E00, P25A2, P25C9, or P26C8 are Type A DTCs.

Diagnostic Aids

Communication codes, U-codes, and P-codes that set in a module can request a DTC to be set in the ECM.

Reference Information
DTC Type Reference

Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions
Scan Tool Reference

Control Module References for scan tool information

Circuit/System Verification

Note:
Do not replace the engine control module for these informational DTCs.
Correct any engine control and communication DTCs before diagnosing these DTCs.
Vehicle in Service Mode.
Verify there are no engine control or communication DTCs set.
If a DTC is set

Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle.
If a DTC is not set
Verify there are no DTCs set in any other control module.
If a DTC is set

Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle.
If a DTC is not set
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.
Verify the DTC does not set.
If the DTC sets

Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle.
If the DTC does not set
All OK.

Repair Instructions

Perform the Diagnostic Repair Verification after completing the repair.

drdiesel1 said:

Are you absolutely sure about the first DTC being P0D6B ??? I can't find that DTC in the GM Manual

Click to expand...

It's 100% P0D6B.

The internets says "A/C Compressor Motor Voltage Sensor Circuit Low Voltage" - I didn't even bother to look it up, assuming GM had this stuff all locked down

This is for the Volt
http://www.autocats.ws/manual/chevrolet/tis0911/en/documents_2012/Volt/SM-R/92563271.EN.html

Torque Pro is listing it as pending. It had gone all the way through earlier in the day, I had reset it since then. This screen shot is from a saved state.
(whoa, sorry it's so big!)
View attachment P0D6B.png

This is consistent with what the dealer said about the air conditioner compressor. Who knows. Maybe it just unplugged itself? Or the voltage sensor went belly up? I think the air conditioner runs on pack voltage, and it that was off, I'd expect way more error messages.

I got an onstar message in my email that reads (I think this is duplicate info)

"An issue with the lithium-ion battery in your 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV has been detected. Please service your vehicle within 1 day."

The dealer isn't touching it this weekend, they'll start up on Monday again. They let me borrow a brand spanking new Cruz - Much better car than expected, but I still can't plug it in. Better than that damn Malibu, that's for sure.

I should have more info tomorrow. As for that error code? Man.. I dunno what to say.

Okay. I found it :mrgreen:

Diagnostic Instructions

Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each diagnostic category.

DTC Descriptors

A/C Compressor Motor Voltage Sensor Circuit High Voltage
DTC P0D6B

The AC compressor function is to provide refrigerant flow in the AC refrigerant loop to help cool down the cabin, help dehumidify the air in a defrost mode and help maintain the battery temperature. Rather than a more-typical pulley, the A/C compressor uses a 3-phase alternating current, high voltage electric motor to operate. It has an on-board inverter that takes High Voltage direct current from the vehicle's High Voltage Battery and inverts it to alternating current for the motor. The AC compressor shall be activated when any of the three following events occur:

The customer pushes the AC button
The HVAC control, in AUTO mode, requests the electric AC compressor on to help in cooling the cabin or removing moisture in the defrost mode
The High Voltage Battery Thermal System requests the AC compressor on to help maintain the battery temperature

The Hybrid Powertrain control module 2 uses values from the A/C refrigerant pressure transducers, A/C refrigerant thermistor, duct temperature sensors, ambient air temperature sensor , passenger compartment temperature sensor, battery cell temperature sensors, battery coolant temperature sensors and battery coolant pumps to determine the speed at which the compressor will operate. This speed request message is sent from the Hybrid/EV Powertrain Control Module 2 to the A/C compressor control module via serial data message.

Conditions for Running the DTC

DTC P0D6B

12 V battery system voltage is above 10.2 V.
Main HV battery contactors must be closed.
DTCs P0AA4, P0AD9, P0C78, P0D5E, P1EC3, P2534, P2535, P3061, or U016B must not be set.


Conditions for Setting the DTC

DTC P0D6B

The A/C compressor high voltage input sensor value is less than 27.75 V for 1 second.


Action Taken When the DTC Sets

The A/C compressor is disabled.

Conditions for Clearing the DTC

These are all type B DTC's


Danger: Always perform the High Voltage Disabling procedure prior to servicing any High Voltage component or connection. Personal Protection Equipment (PPE) and proper procedures must be followed.

The High Voltage Disabling procedure includes the following steps:

Identify how to disable high voltage.
Identify how to test for the presence of high voltage.
Identify condition under which high voltage is always present and personal protection equipment (PPE) and proper procedures must be followed.

Before working on any high voltage system, be sure to wear the following Personal Protection Equipment:

Safety glasses with appropriate side shields when within 15 meters (50 feet) of the vehicle, either indoors or outdoors.
Certified and up-to-date Class "0" Insulation gloves rated at 1000V with leather protectors.
Visually and functionally inspect the gloves before use.
Wear the Insulation gloves with leather protectors at all times when working with the high voltage battery assembly, whether the system is energized or not.

Safety glasses with appropriate side shields when within 15 meters (50 feet) of the vehicle, either indoors or outdoors.
Certified and up-to-date Class "0" Insulation gloves rated at 1000V with leather protectors.
Visually and functionally inspect the gloves before use.
Wear the Insulation gloves with leather protectors at all times when working with the high voltage battery assembly, whether the system is energized or not.

Click to expand...

Those gloves are $150 a set. Wow.

Yeah, I don't even want to think about the arc flash that this car could make

I called the service department today. According to the usual guy I talk to, the "Bolt team" has been on the phone and online with GM all day and GM is "freaking out" about this. He also made it clear that they were "freaking out" about the Volt when those first started to come in too, so I guess this is not all that surprising.

Seriously though, thanks for looking up that code for me. I like being in the loop. Most of the time the dealers tell you

"Your car was broken, but now it's fixed. We fixed the broken thing and now it's OK.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

And I qoute -

GM doesn't know what's wrong with the car and they don't know how to fix it.

Click to expand...

When the service manager told me this, he laughed and said "No, really, that's almost verbatim what they said."

Awesome. That's awesome.

They have been working on this constantly. This is what I get for being an early adopter. The service manager (Michael at Allen Gwynn in Glendale, great guy) said his hunch was that it was software, so at least there's a good chance that these problems can be fixed without turning a wrench, or by an over-the-air update, if such a thing is possible.

Fun times!

I assume they've tried the "turn it off and turn it back on again" approach? That works quite often.

Seriously, if it's a software glitch, then the problems you have would be universal, and I've not read anything similar (yet). That doesn't mean some random glitch got into your system. Flashing the firmware and reinstalling is something that often works with high-order electronics. But then, this is a very high-order electric car in its first generation.

At the very least, we should be happy Chevy is addressing this head-on, unlike a certain other Japanese manufacturer of EVs who ignored a universal issue for months before acting.

There's still time - Maybe we'll find out we all got takata airbags in a few months :lol:

OK, I feel this is getting repetitive. Another day driving the damn Cruz. This time, GM has opened some escalated case and they're looking at ways to remedy this. Which might even end up being a new car. They're talking to the dealership, who has done everything they can, seeing as GM has been unable to tell them how exactly to fix the problem, and supposedly I'll hear back from somebody no later than Wednesday. All this for a blowed up air conditioner.

Pigwich said:

OK, I feel this is getting repetitive. Another day driving the damn Cruz. This time, GM has opened some escalated case and they're looking at ways to remedy this. Which might even end up being a new car. They're talking to the dealership, who has done everything they can, seeing as GM has been unable to tell them how exactly to fix the problem, and supposedly I'll hear back from somebody no later than Wednesday. All this for a blowed up air conditioner.

Click to expand...

Wow, a new car with those strange problems, taking days to repair... boy, I would not feel confident in their underpaid stealership techie fixing this properly. I hope they give you a new Bolt.

flamaest said:

Pigwich said:

OK, I feel this is getting repetitive. Another day driving the damn Cruz. This time, GM has opened some escalated case and they're looking at ways to remedy this. Which might even end up being a new car. They're talking to the dealership, who has done everything they can, seeing as GM has been unable to tell them how exactly to fix the problem, and supposedly I'll hear back from somebody no later than Wednesday. All this for a blowed up air conditioner.

Click to expand...

Wow, a new car with those strange problems, taking days to repair... boy, I would not feel confident in their underpaid stealership techie fixing this properly. I hope they give you a new Bolt.

Click to expand...

Seeing as how you have not experience with this dealership or its service department, I wonder where your loss of confidence comes from. Also, how do you know they are "underpaid"? Do you know someone who works there?

Make generalizations all you want, but I find this anti dealership rhetoric a bit silly.

If any dealership tells me this below I would be VERY concerned:

"GM doesn't know what's wrong with the car and they don't know how to fix it."

You should read the whole thread, neither they nor GM knows how to fix this: THIS IS NOT GOOD.

In comparison, if you buy a Tesla (my next car, thank you), they will freaking break their backs to fix your problem.

Pigwich, you should DEMAND a new car if they fail to correct this in a couple of weeks, or if it comes back later.

I had an EV before my Bolt which had an intermittent Level-2 charging issue, which the dealer claimed to have fixed with a firmware fix, yet the the issue came right back JUST AFTER the warranty expired, and so I was out almost $2000 in repairs and board-replacements. I sold the car immediately after the repairs were done, since this left a horrible taste in my mouth.

It sounds like GM is doing everything they can to address the problem, just like Tesla. Now if you think Tesla quickly fixes any problems that come up, you haven't been paying attention to Tesla forums. There are stories there that will make you run to your nearest Chevrolet dealer's service department.

Keep in mind this is the very beginning of entirely new vehicle, one that was designed from the ground up to be an EV. I'm am quite happy with the relatively few reports of issues thus far (with compassion to the OP).