DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:19 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:53 pm

This story is one of the best:

https://www.chargepoint.com/files/cases ... xpress.pdf

Payback in 3 years and $1,000/month in revenue on average.
Leaf SL 2012-2014
Leaf SV 2014-2017
Bolt LT 2017-
6.72 kW Solar

User avatar
oilerlord
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Siberia, AB
Contact: Website

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:31 am

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:This story is one of the best:

https://www.chargepoint.com/files/cases ... xpress.pdf

Payback in 3 years and $1,000/month in revenue on average.


I can get behind the green and customer service angles...offering the chargers to attract revenue to your core business, as a great benefit for your employees, and my business being the good corporate citizen. However, In terms of ROI, we can be sure there is a lot more moving parts to this particular deal we aren't privy to.

The case study mentions:

"In the 1.5 years since being connected to the ChargePoint network, the fast charger
has delivered over 2,900 charge sessions for a total electrical output of 18.6 MWh.
In doing this, it has generated more than $10,000 in revenue while adding only
$2,100 to the Marriot’s electric bill (based on the national average of $0.12/kWh)."

So we know there are several stakeholders: ChargePoint, Fuji Electric, EVoasis, and Marriot. While the station may indeed have generated $10K in revenue over 1.5 years, I'd be interested in how this deal came together, what incentives and/or subsidies were offered, and how the revenue (and expenses including others not listed) are distributed. It looks like the deal happened sometime in 2013 as projections were forecasted into 2015. Worst case, let's assume no growth. If 1.5 years yielded $10K in revenue and $2.1K in expenses, let's assume 3-years suggests a net income of $15,800. I have a tough time believing that a turnkey installation of a 25 kW DC charging station, in 2013, had an (implied) net cost under $16,000. What parts of this deal were subsidized, and by who? To me, it doesn't add up - again, because we aren't privy to the deal.

While the potential for a 3-year ROI makes for a great press release, based on the other case studies I'm skeptical. Did those rosy projections come to fruition? I'd like to see the historical numbers.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan
My 9.2kW DC Solar: https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:19 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:45 am

A prudent assessment, more specifics would be enlightening.
Maintenance isn't mentioned.
$0.12/kWh? For supply perhaps, but doesn't include distribution and other fees.
If you're seriously interested in an installation, you'd want hard numbers.
Are you so inclined?
I suppose ChargePoint will respond, "call us", sales reps await you.
ChargePoint? What say you?
Leaf SL 2012-2014
Leaf SV 2014-2017
Bolt LT 2017-
6.72 kW Solar

User avatar
oilerlord
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Siberia, AB
Contact: Website

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:45 pm

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:

If you're seriously interested in an installation, you'd want hard numbers.
Are you so inclined?



I'm interested, but more about understanding how the business model works, and if there actually are DC fast charging stations that pay for themselves from charging revenue alone. For me, I live in a province with over 4 million people, but with only a handful of EVs on our roads. This is Ford F-150 country. I'm quite certain my B250e is the only one in Alberta. I've never seen a Bolt on the road. Our municipal government kicks around the idea of installing a few L2 charging sites every now & then, but no mention is ever made of L3. One of our city Councillors is 100% opposed to having the city pay for "free fuel" for EV owners, maintaining that it's unfair to everyone else. It's an opinion that the majority seems to agree with because none ever seem to get installed. Small thinking. I plugged in at Ikea a couple of months ago, and someone came up to me, and angrily asked me "where's MY free fuel"? I have no doubt that like minded individuals purposely park in those EV parking spots to block guys like me from getting an "unfair" advantage. Attitudes need to change, but clearly it's not going to happen overnight.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan
My 9.2kW DC Solar: https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:25 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:16 pm

oilerlord wrote:I plugged in at Ikea a couple of months ago, and someone came up to me, and angrily asked me "where's MY free fuel"?


To which you replied "Right here! Where's YOUR EV?"
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

SeanNelson
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:43 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:51 pm

oilerlord wrote:One of our city Councillors is 100% opposed to having the city pay for "free fuel" for EV owners, maintaining that it's unfair to everyone else.

The simple solution to this is to just not install free chargers. Make 'em pay for a charging session, even if it's just a nominal amount. That would also eliminate the problem of the chargers being blocked by people who don't actually need the charge but can't pass up a handout.

User avatar
oilerlord
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Siberia, AB
Contact: Website

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:56 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
oilerlord wrote:I plugged in at Ikea a couple of months ago, and someone came up to me, and angrily asked me "where's MY free fuel"?


To which you replied "Right here! Where's YOUR EV?"


My first thought was something along those lines, but the high road is usually the one best traveled. There wasn't much chance of changing the guy's perception about EV's in five seconds or less. His day was already ruined, and I didn't want to make it worse. To be fair, I've also plugged in there and others have expressed genuine interested in how the car works, and thought it was pretty cool.

In the last year driving the car, I don't think I've ever encountered anyone on the road that's actually figured out what my car is. Aside from the "ELECTRIC DRIVE" letters on the back, it pretty much flies under the radar - that is, unless I'm at Ikea. I like that.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan
My 9.2kW DC Solar: https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

User avatar
oilerlord
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Siberia, AB
Contact: Website

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:10 pm

SeanNelson wrote:
oilerlord wrote:One of our city Councillors is 100% opposed to having the city pay for "free fuel" for EV owners, maintaining that it's unfair to everyone else.

The simple solution to this is to just not install free chargers. Make 'em pay for a charging session, even if it's just a nominal amount. That would also eliminate the problem of the chargers being blocked by people who don't actually need the charge but can't pass up a handout.


I'd argue not so simple. Then you need to set up a meter, charge cards, and a department that manages it. What the Councillor (and most people that oppose free charging) don't really comprehend is how cheap electricity really is in our city, and how few people (at least initially) will actually use the charging stations. The wholesale rate on kWh's in Edmonton last month was 2.7 cents per kWh. Is it really worth collecting 3 cents from someone?

So our city could do the right thing & cough up $100K to install some L2 charging stations, but NOOOO...so unfair. Can't give away 3 cents to EV drivers even though they may hang around and spend $40 on lunch at a restaurant nearby. No problem spending $600K on roadside "art" that looks like shiny poop from an alien robot.

Image

Rant over.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan
My 9.2kW DC Solar: https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:25 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:50 pm

oilerlord wrote:My first thought was something along those lines, but the high road is usually the one best traveled.


Absolutely. And I would never say that to someone either. But it wouldn't stop me from thinking it at them as they are walking away...
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

WetEV
Moderator
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:26 pm
Location: Near Seattle

Re: Hello from ChargePoint!

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:33 am

oilerlord wrote:I'd argue not so simple. Then you need to set up a meter, charge cards, and a department that manages it.


Or a contract with Chargepoint. Their business model is to provide the charging stations, the charge cards to the customers, manage the whole thing. For a fee.

I would suggest a cost of much more than the actual electric price.

That way when someone rants about the "free gasoline" you can turn around and rant about it's not free, it is a ripoff. It is a ripoff to pay 12 cents for 3 cents worth of electric power, and point out that is 36 cents per liter of e-gasoline. 36 cents per equivalent liter, what robbery, I only pay 9 cents per equivalent liter at home. That's why I usually charge at home not at this ripoff station.

:lol:

Don't ask "what are you paying at the pump", let them make that comparison.

Isn't gasoline about $1.00/liter in Alberta?
#49 on the LEAF 100 mile club.
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
Prerelease Ford Focus EV (drove, didn't own)
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Return to “Batteries and Charging”