How doI know if I can use this outlet?

I'm new to the EV scene and I have a couple questions I'm hoping you guys can answer:

I know that I can use a CSS adaptor but does this mean I can only use a CSS? Can I get adaptors for other types?

I see all this stuff about 120V / 240V / 250V and 8AMP / 12AMP / 16AMP / 30AMP / 32 AMP. How do I know what I can use and, if use the wrong thing, will it fry my car?

I'm going to get an electrician to install a 240V/30AMP circuit in my garage along with a EVCS. Right now I'm looking at the Siemens unit for $450 since that looks like the cheapest I can find. Do I have other options? I drive about a 100 miles a day minimum so I just don't have time for the lower voltage and amperage options.

Also, I found at work that I can plug into a 250V/30AMP circular receptacle. Can I use this for my car - I assume I'll have to get some kind of adaptor to accommodate the circular receptacle but other than this is there anything else I need?

Thanks in advance for your help. Any guidance is much appreciated.

ElGuapo said:

I'm going to get an electrician to install a 240V/30AMP circuit in my garage along with a EVCS. Right now I'm looking at the Siemens unit for $450 since that looks like the cheapest I can find. Do I have other options? I drive about a 100 miles a day minimum so I just don't have time for the lower voltage and amperage options.

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The on board charger of the Bolt EV is capable of charging at 7.2Kw Max I believe.
That would require a recommended 40 amp 220V circuit.
It's always good to build a circuit with a margin of safety ..

ie: If you're going to be drawing 32amps 220v for 7hrs a 40 amp circuit would not be popping breakers or creating excessive
heat or a potential fire hazard.

Ergo: Building a 30amp circuit to draw 30 amps for several hours is marginal IMO.

-- Welcome to the club!
AJ

Thanks for the response AyeJay. Good point on upping the ratings for some margin.


What about this 250V/30Amp outlet I see at work? Can I plug a 240V/30Amp charger into it and be okay? I'll still need some kind of plug adaptor I assume.

ElGuapo said:

What about this 250V/30Amp outlet I see at work? Can I plug a 240V/30Amp charger into it and be okay? I'll still need some kind of plug adaptor I assume.

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I'm sorry EG .. Without seeing the situation first hand I couldn't give you an opinion on that.

Aj

I am going to get a JuiceBox Pro Lite

https://emotorwerks.com/store/residential/juicebox-40-40-amp-evse-with-24-foot-cable

It's slightly more expensive (was $500 on cyber monday but I didn't pull the trigger) than some others, but it charges at 40 amp and 10kw. That extra speed is what I'm looking for. I'll have a NEMA 14-30 outlet installed on a 50 amp breaker. Viola!

All the EVSE come with different plugs or are hardwired. Identify the type of outlet you have access to, then buy an EVSE with that plug. Then you can have that same type of outlet installed at your home so that you can move the EVSE on a whim. If you take a pic of the outlet, someone here can help you identify it.

AyeJay said:

Ergo: Building a 30amp circuit to draw 30 amps for several hours is marginal IMO.

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Not marginal, it is flat out a code violation. Continuous duty devices (like an EVSE) require a circuit rated at 125% of device capacity.

ElGuapo said:

What about this 250V/30Amp outlet I see at work? Can I plug a 240V/30Amp charger into it and be okay? I'll still need some kind of plug adaptor I assume.

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The charger in the Bolt can use 120V, 240V, or even 208V ( most are rated 97-265 VAC), but you are really asking if you can plug in a 30A EVSE, and the answer is no. 24A is the maximum allowed on a 30A circuit.

The EVSE is essentially a "smart" extension cord that supplies power to your EV and contains redundant safety features to protect the user and the vehicle. The actual charger is built into the EV. The EVSE "advertises" to the EV how much power it can supply, and the charger in the EV controls the charging process. It will draw no more than the maximum allowed by the EVSE, but may draw less (if the battery is cold, the charge tapers off when the battery is nearly full, etc.)

You will need an EVSE with either a plug that matches the receptacle, or an adapter. You also need to make sure the EVSE is drawing no more than 80% of the circuit capacity (24A on a 30A circuit). Some EVSE's are adjustable, others are not.


Good info here (might be more than you want to know):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

It makes little sense to pay for a new 30 amp installation. Get at least a 40 amp, and preferably a 50 amp, so you can charge at at least 30 amps. Clipper Creek makes great inexpensive EVSEs in the US, with 3 year warranties. They designate models by the size breaker you need, so for a 30 amp circuit you'd want something like an HCS-30 (charges at the maximum safe 24 amps), for 40 amps an HCS-40 (30 amp rate), etc.

Welcome!!! Lots to learn, but it's not as complicated as it seems (or as I am likely to make it sound.. sorry ;-)

ElGuapo said:

I know that I can use a CSS adaptor but does this mean I can only use a CSS? Can I get adaptors for other types?

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Quick baseline. There are 3 types of charging and 2 types of plugs you can use (depending on your Bolt)
Level 1 is 120v (home outlets) and can charge your Bolt at 8 or 12 amps. Depending on your driving style, that is good for 3-4 or 4-5 miles per hour charged. (You can get more if your miles per kWh is better.. It's one of the numbers on the dash you can see. As I use my heater and drive a lot of highway speeds, mine is lowish in the 3.4 or so miles per kWh) The Bolt defaults to 8 amps, but you can toggle it to 12 amps. They default to 8 because not everyone's plugs are really safe for higher amps.. The plug end on your car is the J1772 plug for this.

Level 2 is 240v and it also uses the same J1772 plug on the Bolt. The level 1 and level 2 devices are called EVSEs (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment).
Again, how many miles you can get per hour charging depends on the amps of the unit. The most of Bolt can take is a 32amp device which gets you 25-ish miles in an hour. I'd recommend a 30 or 32 amp unit at home. You will want a 40 amp circuit for a 30/32 amp EVSE. (Some people have the electrician put in 50 amp or larger circuits to "future proof" for the next EV they might buy. Your call on that. ) The EVSE can be wired in in 2 ways. It can be hardwired in. Just have the electrician run the wire right to your EVSE and connect it. This is nice for stability/security, but not for flexibility.
A lot of people (most?) just have the electrician put in a receptacle and they put a plug on the EVSE. Since there aren't technically official 40 amp outlets, a 50 amp might be easier. Then you are into the Nema 14-50 are (the same one RV parks use) or the 10-50 (dryer plug).
You can just put in a 30 amp receptacle, but you are then going with a 24amp or lower EVSE (less miles per hour).
See what kind of plug your EVSE comes with to make sure the electrician can add the proper receptacle.

ElGuapo said:

I see all this stuff about 120V / 240V / 250V and 8AMP / 12AMP / 16AMP / 30AMP / 32 AMP. How do I know what I can use and, if use the wrong thing, will it fry my car?

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Won't fry the car, but might pop some circuit breakers and not let you charge if you get the wrong combination. Just make sure your plug supports more amps than your EVSE is rated for. ;-)

ElGuapo said:

I'm going to get an electrician to install a 240V/30AMP circuit in my garage along with a EVCS. Right now I'm looking at the Siemens unit for $450 since that looks like the cheapest I can find. Do I have other options? I drive about a 100 miles a day minimum so I just don't have time for the lower voltage and amperage options.

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Lots of other options. (tho that is a good one)
Check out ClipperCreek, they have a good variety and it will be good looking at what they have...

ElGuapo said:

Also, I found at work that I can plug into a 250V/30AMP circular receptacle. Can I use this for my car - I assume I'll have to get some kind of adaptor to accommodate the circular receptacle but other than this is there anything else I need?

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That would be great, but you will need an EVSE with the proper plug end to match that receptacle. You can get small portable EVSEs for that.
Turbocord is one that comes to mind..

If you don't need too many miles per hour (as you are charging at home), you can even just use the EVSE that comes with your Bolt.
If you make/get an adapter, it can be a 240v 12 amp EVSE. It will probably net you something like 8 miles per hour.
Make: http://www.kawal.net/volt%20adapter.htm
Buy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/384390572/chevy-volt-chevy-bolt-ev-level-2-charge
(note: I don't know anything about the above listing. Just a google search. I made my own adapter..)

It seems complicated, but it's actually not that bad..
Mostly just the different type of plugs for 240v that gets complicated and that isn't a problem with electric cars, but with the electrical system in general. ;-)

Have fun!!

desiv

desiv said:

Again, how many miles you can get per hour charging depends on the amps of the unit. The most of Bolt can take is a 32amp device which gets you 25-ish miles in an hour. I'd recommend a 30 or 32 amp unit at home. You will want a 40 amp circuit for a 30/32 amp EVSE.

desiv

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Is this a fact? Would I not be able to utilize the full 10kw @ 40 amps off the Juicebox? Does anyone here actually have a 10 amp Juicebox that can confirm this 7.8 kw limit?

Fast chargers push more than 7.8 kw to the Bolt, so why can't a home based wall unit? JuiceBox also makes a 75 amp version that would push 18kw. I'm not buying that one, but it would be a great option if I needed it.

SmokingRubber said:

Fast chargers push more than 7.8 kw to the Bolt, so why can't a home based wall unit? JuiceBox also makes a 75 amp version that would push 18kw. I'm not buying that one, but it would be a great option if I needed it.

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WIth a DC fast charger, the charger is the large box outside of the car. With A/C EVSEs, the charger is the on-board charger within the car. I don't know for a fact that it is limited to 7.2kW precisely, but it is definitely less than 10, or even 8.

A DC Fast Charger can push nearly 60kW into the Bolt's battery under ideal conditions. But again, that's due to a large box outside of the car containing the actual fast charger.

Search for EVSE on Amazon - you will find dozens of manufacturers, and prices as low as $250.

There is really very little reason to spend more on features such as WiFi, and the innards of the devices are neither complex nor costly, so not much difference in reliability among them.

For me, portability for road-trips and low cost were priorities.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103133_how-to-buy-an-electric-car-charging-station-buyers-guide-to-evses

SmokingRubber said:

Is this a fact? Would I not be able to utilize the full 10kw @ 40 amps off the Juicebox? Does anyone here actually have a 10 amp Juicebox that can confirm this 7.8 kw limit?

Fast chargers push more than 7.8 kw to the Bolt, so why can't a home based wall unit? JuiceBox also makes a 75 amp version that would push 18kw. I'm not buying that one, but it would be a great option if I needed it.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is a fact. The charger in the Bolt is 7.2kW
https://www.gmfleet.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle/features-specs-trims-dimensions.html
or
http://www.chevrolet.com/byo-vc/cli... 100 kWh battery. Or made it a sedan. Or RWD.

SmokingRubber said:

Is this a fact? Would I not be able to utilize the full 10kw @ 40 amps off the Juicebox? Does anyone here actually have a 10 amp Juicebox that can confirm this 7.8 kw limit?

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It's the limit of the charger built into the Bolt (that's why the external unit is called an EVSE and not a charger; the charger is built in and 7.2kw).

In fact, if you convert 240v and 32 amps to watts, you get 7,680 watts, which is more than the 7.2kw on board charger can do.
(https://www.webstaurantstore.com/guide/600/how-to-calculate-amps-volts-and-watts.html)

This is probably why a 30 amp isn't significantly different from a 32 amp for miles per hour added..
30 amps on that calculator is 7.2kw..
It's possible that anything over 30 amps isn't getting you any more...
Hmm.. There are people saying they are seeing the full 32amps being pulled when charging, which would imply the 7.2kw charger is more like a 7.6kw charger, which would make sense considering they say 32amps...

SmokingRubber said:

Fast chargers push more than 7.8 kw to the Bolt, so why can't a home based wall unit? JuiceBox also makes a 75 amp version that would push 18kw. I'm not buying that one, but it would be a great option if I needed it.

Click to expand...

Ah, fast chargers bypass the onboard charger, so they can push in as much as they want.. OK, that's not true. They can push in as much as the car will let them, which is significantly more than 240v and 32 amps.. ;-)

desiv

GetOffYourGas said:

SmokingRubber said:

Fast chargers push more than 7.8 kw to the Bolt, so why can't a home based wall unit? JuiceBox also makes a 75 amp version that would push 18kw. I'm not buying that one, but it would be a great option if I needed it.

Click to expand...

WIth a DC fast charger, the charger is the large box outside of the car. With A/C EVSEs, the charger is the on-board charger within the car. I don't know for a fact that it is limited to 7.2kW precisely, but it is definitely less than 10, or even 8.

A DC Fast Charger can push nearly 60kW into the Bolt's battery under ideal conditions. But again, that's due to a large box outside of the car containing the actual fast charger.

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32 amps is apparently the most the bolt will draw without ccs, 32 amps also happens to be the limit of a continuous use load for a 40 amp circuit (40x0.8 = 32), 32 x 240 (which is a nominal voltage that can vary which is why you see 220/230 or 250 sometimes used) is about 7.6kw. I'm not looking up any actual bolt specs here just some simple math but that seems to be where all the limits are coming into play.

Anything beyond that would require the 2 big extra connectors the ccs plug has to handle the current aside form the 3 phase high voltage/amperage power requirements most residences won't have as well as the expensive equipment that likely also requires regular inspections.

So I might as well save some money and buy the Siemens Versicharger from Costco for $389
https://www.costco.com/VersiCharge-LVL-2-Universal-Electric-Vehicle-Charger.product.100295506.html?pageSize=96&catalogId=10701&dept=All&langId=-1&keyword=ev+charger&storeId=10301

That's what I'll get with the $700 costco cash card Thanks everyone for clearing that up. I'll have to get a NEMA 6-50 outlet installed on a 40-50 amp breaker.

SmokingRubber said:

So I might as well save some money and buy the Siemens Versicharger from Costco for $389
https://www.costco.com/VersiCharge-LVL-2-Universal-Electric-Vehicle-Charger.product.100295506.html?pageSize=96&catalogId=10701&dept=All&langId=-1&keyword=ev+charger&storeId=10301

That's what I'll get with the $700 costco cash card Thanks everyone for clearing that up. I'll have to get a NEMA 6-50 outlet installed on a 40-50 amp breaker.

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The only part of a circuit you can't oversize is the receptacle, you can size wire larger then your breaker and your breaker smaller then your wire and larger then you're receptacle but you can not install a receptacle too large for any of the circuit components, so if you're putting an a 50 amp plug you need a 50 amp breaker not a 40 and the 6 gauge wire to handle it.

"Level 3 DCFC" or "DC quick chargers" indeed feed DC electricity directly to the batteries by-passing the on board charger (except for some control functions) usually from a much larger externally mounted unit. These devices are quite expensive to purchase and require way more electrical capacity than a home based 220V, Level 2 unit. That makes a Level 3 DCFC unit cost prohibitive, not practical for residential use.

During Level 1 or 2 EV charging the on board charger in the car receives AC electricity from your EVSE (charging station) then converts the AC electricity from your home into DC via it's inverter and sends that DC to the batteries.

- This was made clear to me when I had an on board charging (OBC) module fail in my KIA Soul EV.
When that happened Level 1&2 charging were inoperative but level 3 DCFC still worked based upon the functions outlined above.

I hope this wasn't too long winded..

AJ

IMAdolt said:

The only part of a circuit you can't oversize is the receptacle, you can size wire larger then your breaker and your breaker smaller then your wire and larger then you're receptacle but you can not install a receptacle too large for any of the circuit components, so if you're putting an a 50 amp plug you need a 50 amp breaker not a 40 and the 6 gauge wire to handle it.

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A 50A receptacle on a 40A circuit meets code, and is in fact the only option for a plug on a 40A circuit (search for 40A receptacle and see what you find).
A 40A breaker with 8 ga wire (unless it is a very long run) and a 50A receptacle is quite acceptable and will pass an electrical inspection. Since it will be a special purpose branch circuit for an EVSE, you don't even need to pull a neutral, 2 hots and a ground is all that is required by the EVSE (and the NEC).

SmokingRubber said:

So I might as well save some money and buy the Siemens Versicharger from Costco for $389
https://www.costco.com/VersiCharge-LVL-2-Universal-Electric-Vehicle-Charger.product.100295506.html?pageSize=96&catalogId=10701&dept=All&langId=-1&keyword=ev+charger&storeId=10301

That's what I'll get with the $700 costco cash card Thanks everyone for clearing that up. I'll have to get a NEMA 6-50 outlet installed on a 40-50 amp breaker.

Click to expand...

For the cost difference between 8 AWG wire and 6 AWG wire ($30 / 50 ft) I would suggest you "future proof" by installing the 50A 6 AWG circuit

winterescape said:

For the cost difference between 8 AWG wire and 6 AWG wire ($30 / 50 ft) I would suggest you "future proof" by installing the 50A 6 AWG circuit

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Great advice. This is exactly what I did ..
even thought my EVSE is rated at only 32 amps and the circuit breaker is rated at 40 amps.


AJ