Are the charging networks getting ready for us?

I have a friend in the recycling business and the company he works for had him pick up 8 Chademo charging stations the other day. They were being replaced with stations that accepted 4 charging standards. My first impression was that they were probably being replaced to make way for higher KWH charging. Then it also occurred to me that they were probably also making way for other makes besides Nissans.

My friend picked these up at a central distribution point so he didn't know where they originally came from or where the new ones were headed. It seems to me that the charging networks are starting to realize there are some new players in town and it's time to get ready for them!

It looks like the SAE standard is going to be the surviving standard going forward. Hyundai/Kia is making the switch on their new vehicle designs this year. Honda is also using the SAE standard on the Clarity.

My guess is that even the PHEV vehicles will have DC charging as an option with in the next couple of years and we will see the replacement of the level 2 chargers with 24 KW DC chargers in parking garages and local businesses.

It would be better if the charging stations in rural areas (for road trippers) were 50 kW.

With 50 kW chargers, you can probably get a 3:1 drive:recharge time ratio, while with 24 kW chargers, you can probably only get a 1.5:1 drive:recharge time ratio.

Ultimately, we need the more rural/remote chargers to be 100kW or more. They are already playing around with a standard that goes to 350kW at SAE. But the idea of a local 24kW charger for a PHEV is interesting. I don't see it happening, though, as AC EVSEs are much less expensive to install than DC chargers. The former (what we have today) is just a connection to the grid with some safety measures. The charger itself is in the car. I don't see manufacturers getting rid of the charger in the car anytime soon, so there isn't much benefit for supporting DC charging in a PHEV.

marshallinwa said:

My guess is that even the PHEV vehicles will have DC charging as an option with in the next couple of years and we will see the replacement of the level 2 chargers with 24 KW DC chargers in parking garages and local businesses.

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I thought tat as well, till a friend explained it doesn't work that way. Charge rate of the batteries is limited by the size of the battery pack.

If you can get 90 miles of range on a fast charger in 30 minutes on a Bolt, thats because in the middle of the battery charge state range you can put about a 30% charge into the batteries in that amount of time without cooking them. If you tried to fast charge a Volt with the same current you could not fully recharge the batteries in 15 minutes, that would kill the batteries. Instead you could add about 30% of the total range max in about 30 minutes, and like the Bolt the charging would have to slow way down once the charge rate came up over about 75%.

The charge rate of the battery pack is limited to the size of the battery pack (and also by chemistry, active cooling of the batteries, etc).

PHEVs with their smaller batteries can probably be charged a little faster, but not much. Remember that if you regularly used DC quick charging on your Bolt it would degrade the batteries faster than just using level 2. The same would apply to trying to Volt et al. If you always charged them at peak charge rate you would affect the life of the batteries.

There are some Tesla drivers in particular who supercharge regularly, and Tesla in general seems to be more willing to cook the battery packs that GM is. Note that Teslas are seeing notable range loss over the years, while the Volt is very conservative in both charge rate and percentage of battery accessible. Some Volts are now over 400k miles with no battery loss.

Not sure the Bolt will fare quite as well, as they use more of the battery capacity, but that's why I leave my car in hilltop reserve mode most of the time, and very rarely use DC quick charging. Then again - I purchased. If you leased your car you probably don't care about pampering your battery.

GetOffYourGas said:

Ultimately, we need the more rural/remote chargers to be 100kW or more. They are already playing around with a standard that goes to 350kW at SAE. But the idea of a local 24kW charger for a PHEV is interesting. I don't see it happening, though, as AC EVSEs are much less expensive to install than DC chargers. The former (what we have today) is just a connection to the grid with some safety measures. The charger itself is in the car. I don't see manufacturers getting rid of the charger in the car anytime soon, so there isn't much benefit for supporting DC charging in a PHEV.

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Well Mitsubishi is listing a DC charge port on the Outlander PHEV. Can 24KW chargers at the grocery store be far behind?

https://insideevs.com/2018-outlander-phev-now-listed-on-mitsubishis-u-s-site/

marshallinwa said:

Well Mitsubishi is listing a DC charge port on the Outlander PHEV.

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And it shows and lists it as a CHAdeMO connector, DOH! I can look at this two ways, yet another vehicle that fails to get in line with the SAE standard OR good for me, less chance that if I find a DC charger the SAE port is currently in use ;-)