Tttait
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:00 pm

bluebolt wrote:Has anyone found that switching to TOU rate worked in their favor?


Yes, but...

I need to be able to fully recharge the car overnight anyway as that's how we use it, at least some weekends. That forced me into a level 2 charger at home. Going level 2 puts me in a situation where I always charge off peak.

In Southern California the rate differences are much greater. I was on TOU actually anyway when I got the Bolt, because we had just put in Solar. Again the SoCal rate structure helped us a lot there too. My Solar is paying me back at 18% per year, pretty much guaranteed minimum. When we sized the system I had them add a couple extra panels so that we could switch over to 99% electric driving in the household and still cancel out the electric bill. It was a great deal for me - but again SoCal has different pricing structures.

Anybody in Socal who is thinking about solar feel free to send me a PM for more details on that part.

To your question, even without the Solar TOU could be a great deal depending on how your rates work. Another option may be to ask about installing a dedicated meter just for your car charging plug. Some power companies will set you up with a separate meter at a reduced electric rate if it's exclusively for charging your car.

BoltyMcBoltFace
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 pm

My neighbor just installed a Solar system in his house for $26k and that did not include the extra capacity necessary to charge an EV.

Way too expensive for me to consider just for my normal electric needs. Neighbor said the Solar system only saved him $100/mo and at that rate it eould take over 20 yrs to break even.


I think your neighbor got ripped off, unless maybe he got Tesla shingles and was willing to pay for the looks.

I paid $8k for solar over two years ago and it's covered all of my use (admittedly my bill only averaged around $70/month). I've gotten a small check from Southern California Edison each year for my over-production. That's about an 8-year payback.

I switched to TOU after getting a Spark EV and the financial benefit was marginal at the time, but I wanted to get locked in before I got the solar. Now with the solar and 2 EVs to charge overnight I'm definitely far ahead on TOU. Without solar, the cost/benefit will come down to how much of your use you can shift to that off-peak period and what the rates are, and it won't make sense for everyone.

sgt1372
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:53 pm

BoltyMcBoltFace wrote:Without solar, the cost/benefit will come down to how much of your use you can shift to that off-peak period and what the rates are, and it won't make sense for everyone.


I've got similar estimates for solar as my neighbor and a switch to TOU just doesn't make sense for me.
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oilerlord
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:49 am

sgt1372 wrote:
My neighbor just installed a solar system in his house for $26k and that did not include the extra capacity necessary to charge an EV.

Way too expensive for me to consider just for my normal electric needs. Neighbor said the solar system only saved him $100/mo and at that rate it eould take over 20 yrs to break even.



Something doesn't add up, or he got boned on the system overall. With incentives, $26K should buy a LOT of solar in SF. Unless he installed a Tesla solar roof or a SunPower system, it's not too difficult to get a well designed / good quality system installed for ~$2.00 per watt. That's 13kW DC!

I did a quick & dirty estimate on the NREL/ PVwatts site for a 13 kW system installed in SF, 45 degree tilt, pointing 180 south, and at 15 cents per kWh.

Image

Your neighbor is saving a LOT more than 100 bucks per month, and the ROI should be ~9 years.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
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sgt1372
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:44 am

oilerlord wrote:
sgt1372 wrote:Your neighbor is saving a LOT more than 100 bucks per month, and the ROI should be ~9 years.


Well, that's what he told me. No reason to lie and I'm in no position to audit him. I'll just have to take his word for it.

Just not interested myself.
My vehicles:

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2008 BMW 335i
2002 Toyota MR2 Spyder
2002 Ford F250 7.3L 4x4 Longbed Turbodiesel
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oilerlord
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:11 am

No accusations expressed or implied...and as i mentioned, he may have been taken to the cleaners and/or installed a premium system above $4.00 per watt to push the payback to 20 years. When I started looking at solar a few years back, the major solar players were quoting me 30-35 year ROI's (and with a straight faces). I get that there's more to installing solar than saving money, but doing it shouldn't be tantamount to lighting it on fire either.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
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gpsman
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:10 am

I looked into it (Bay area, CA) and TOU does NOT make any sense for me. It would be MORE expensive.

In the 7 months I have owned the car, I have found countless public chargings stations, most of them FREE!

I have charged at home 1 time, and just for 4 hours.
In 7 months!

I have paid for DCFC a few times when traveling farther than 200 miles from home. But in total, I have spent about $120 to drive 8,500 miles.

And I have invested $0 in equipment. My only charger is the one that came with the car.

One of the FREE community 6.6 kw chargers near my home is solar powered also. So free and green.

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oilerlord
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:02 pm

gpsman wrote:

TOU does NOT make any sense for me. It would be MORE expensive.

In the 7 months I have owned the car, I have found countless public chargings stations, most of them FREE!

I have charged at home 1 time, and just for 4 hours.
In 7 months!


I have paid for DCFC a few times when traveling farther than 200 miles from home. But in total, I have spent about $120 to drive 8,500 miles.

And I have invested $0 in equipment. My only charger is the one that came with the car.

One of the FREE community 6.6 kw chargers near my home is solar powered also. So free and green.


Interesting that in one of your prior posts back in July, you mentioned that you "ONLY" use the included 120v EVSE, and were one of the biggest advocates that most people can easily get by on 120v charging at home.

gpsman wrote:

The 120 VAC cord that comes with the car is very useful.

If you drive 1 hour a day, like most people do, you can put in 130 miles per day. More than you use. WITHOUT spending a dime on expensive equipment.

I drive about 1000 miles per month.
I ONLY use the free 120 VAC cord.

I can get free 120 VAC power at work too.



As it turns out, you really don't use 120v charging at all, and actually depend on L2/L3 charging for your day-to-day needs. I remember we had a debate about if this. I'm (still) of the opinion that L2 charging is essential, but you advocated "most" people only needed to use the included 120v unit. Seems to me the only reason you "didn't spend a dime on expensive equipment" is because you're using it elsewhere, and it's free. Clearly, TOU (or any plan specific for charging your EV) doesn't make sense for you because it costs more than free.

Anyway, it's just an interesting contradiction to a conversation we had a couple months back. It's great that you have countless, free L2 available to you. Some of us don't have that luxury, and instead rely on L2 charging at home.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan
My 9.2kW DC Solar: https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

BoltyMcBoltFace
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:39 pm

oilerlord wrote

I'm (still) of the opinion that L2 charging is essential,

I'm going to differ with you on that. For some people it will be essential, but for many it won't be. Charging overnight on 120 can easily give 50+ miles of range, and that's plenty for daily driving for many people.

I've been driving EVs for over 4 years, and just got rid of my gasser. I have two L2 EVSEs at home - both still in the boxes they came in. Someday I'll install one of them, but I haven't felt the need yet. Sure, I'll use free public charging if it's there, but I certainly don't rely on it - they're too likely to be full around here.


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joe
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Re: has anyone found success with TOU (time-of-use) rates at home?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:13 pm

BoltyMcBoltFace wrote:
oilerlord wrote

I'm (still) of the opinion that L2 charging is essential,

I'm going to differ with you on that. For some people it will be essential, but for many it won't be. Charging overnight on 120 can easily give 50+ miles of range, and that's plenty for daily driving for many people.


I agree with this. My commute is 95 mi/day and I do fine on 120 V. I usually make up almost exactly what I lost, and that's with 8hrs of work and 3-4 hours of commute.

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