Misadventures at Anaheim Stadium

Chevy Bolt EV Forum

Help Support Chevy Bolt EV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TedMichon

Active member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
26
Earlier this month, my wife and I drove our Bolt EV to nearby Anaheim Stadium to see pitching/hitting sensation Shohei Ohtani. The parking lot attendant directed us to turn on our flashers and follow directions to the preferred parking area. We parked as directed and went in to see the game. Three plus hours later we came back to find our Bolt totally dead and non-responsive. I didn't know how to get into a dead car with no apparent mechanical door lock. I knew we had 24x7 GM emergency roadside service, but the phone number and any info about getting into the car were safely locked away and in the glove box. Fortunately, the Angels have long partnered with AAA to provide free onsite post game auto assistance. Soon the friendly AAA guy was helping us, asking right off if I had left my flashers on (guilty!) and directing me to remove the hidden mechanical key from the fob (just like the three Prii we have owned) while he pried the cover off the key hole on the door handle (not like the Prii) and I turned the door key. Like the Prii, the Bolt uses a 12 volt, motorcycle size lead acid battery to run security, entry, boot up, lights (?) etc. and shares the fatal weakness that when the vehicle is off, it doesn't use the big hulking lithium ion battery to keep the small lead acid battery charged! (Park a Prius at the airport for two weeks and you come back to a dead car.) He tried jump-starting the car and it booted right up! But the moment he disconnected the jumper cables, the Bolt died. We tried charging for a longer time to no avail. The battery read an unhealthy 5 volts, indicating dead cells.

I got through to GM emergency roadside assistance (in Florida) and they sent out a flatbed tow truck. The flatbed driver agreed to tow us to our local dealer. He wanted to load the Bolt on his truck by attaching his winch and dragging it on board. This alarmed me because the Bolt defaults to PARK and would not shift into NEUTRAL when we jump started it. I asked the 800 number how to put it in neutral with no power (Prii have a secret access port). GM researched this for half an hour and got on the line with the tow truck driver, expecting him to put the Bolt on skates (I did not know of them) but apparently that driver didn't either. He dragged the car up with screeching tires and the transmission in park and ground the left rear wheel hub into the trailer bed side. GM had told him that our dealer had no provision to receive vehicle night drops so the latest plan was to drop us and the Bolt at our home and resume in the morning, but at this point the driver revealed that he'd probably be lucky to place the Bolt somewhere in the middle of the street because it couldn't be rolled. We decided to get Angel parking lot security to give us permission to leave it there overnight. While I was doing that, the tow operator drove the truck/car combo around and picked a spot to dump it. He lowered the flatbed, released the winch, and bounced the EV suspension while pushing it onto the parking lot. As I had just emerged from the bullpen loading ramp and was out of range, I was too far away to yell "What the hell are you doing to my car?"

The tow driver gave us a ride home after abandoning the car essentially where he found us. At home, I called GM once more and arranged to get things going in the morning. GM called at 07:00 to say they could not send someone out to the car (less than 5 miles away) with a new 12 volt battery as they had previously offered. Instead, they would send out another flatbed from a different vendor who seemed to know more. This guy explained tire skates to us and I operated the winch as he inserted them under the front tires and lubricated the bed with twenty feet of WD40 under all four wheels. He got me and the Bolt to Selman Chevrolet, and while I talked with a service advisor he and the service guys unloaded the Bolt by bouncing it down the bed! Selman sent me home in a Lyft and later sent another to pick me up. The latter Lyft driver rolled down the passenger window to communicate and as I got in, she crushed my fingers. Ouch!

The Bolt was ready. They had also done the outstanding recall but a part for a minor passenger seat repair was on back order. I asked the service writer to document the damage to the left rear wheel that the first tow driver had left, but he would only refer me to the manager. I spent a half hour with the service manager telling me that neither Selman nor GM was responsible for the tow operators they had selected and directed to drag my car in PARK (and would be paying). So much for 24 × 7 peace of mind ownership. I would have been much better off calling AAA on my dime so I could at least I have ordered them not to drag my car without skates and damage it. I relied on GM and paid for being naive. Now I will have to go after GM's contractor on my own to repair the damage. And no one at Selman or GM will tell me what dragging a Bolt in park does to it.
 
TedMichon said:
...Soon the friendly AAA guy was helping us, asking right off if I had left my flashers on (guilty!)...
Sorry to hear about your problems. One thing I've noticed about my Bolt is that the "click - click - click" sound of the flashers turns off when you turn the car off. So once the car is off there's no audible cue that the flashers are still on. I suspect that's because the "click" sound comes through the vehicle speakers, and whatever produces it gets turned off with the car. That's a bug, not a feature in my opinion.

I've tried to get into the habit of taking a look at the driver information centre as I turn the car off to make sure it's in "P" and the parking brake is set. I'm not as consistent at it as I'd like, but you've given me another good reason to do the check.
 
I presume you mean divide the already long text into paragraphs for readability, not add more paragraphs of material! (Done)
 
Sorry to hear about this complete screw up. You may have recourse, by way of your insurance company. If the damages exceed your deductible, and the insurance company has to pay, they will usually attempt to recover from the responsible party. It's not the best way to do things, because you will have to pay your deductible first. However, your insurance company is obligated to at least try to recover your deductible along with their payout.
 
I'm resigned to live with it, but two things bug me:

1. With a shiny new car, you know the first ding (or worse) is inevitable, but you expect to inflict it yourself and stay extra vigilant trying to delay it happening.

2. I hate the dealer run around "We are not GM", but GM was not there to inspect the damage, only the dealer, who refused. And the tow drivers? We dealt with three of them in the middle of the night and received no documentation since their customer was GM.
 
If I was allowed to leave the car parked in situ (ballpark) I would return in a.m. with a couple of tools, take the battery out, take it to O'Reilly's and have it recharged.

Then reverse.

In fact I finally own one of those rechargers. It's a small box, plugs into 110V and works like a charm.
 
What about popping it in to neutral while it was hooked up to the jumper cables?

Bummer about the tow truck driver. I've never met one that did general towing that had two brain cells to rub together. Heavy equipment and rigging, sure, those guys are great, but for light vehicle work all I think you need is a drivers license, a pistol and a truck to get in to that line of work.

Sorry. I hope your transmission didn't get roached.
 
I have been through similar crap with my Leaf a few times, minus the towing mishaps. A USB charged jump start battery, left plugged in for 10 minutes or so, will usually charge the 12 volt enough to boot up.
 
iletric said:
If I was allowed to leave the car parked in situ (ballpark) I would return in a.m. with a couple of tools, take the battery out, take it to O'Reilly's and have it recharged.

Then reverse.

In fact I finally own one of those rechargers. It's a small box, plugs into 110V and works like a charm.

Turned out that that approach would have wasted more time and not worked. The 12 volt battery would not have taken a charge so I would have had to replace it, something covered under warranty but not available at midnight and awkward to do without transportation come morning. I was also under pressure to remove the Bolt from the stadium parking lot ASAP.
 
Pigwich said:
What about popping it in to neutral while it was hooked up to the jumper cables?

Bummer about the tow truck driver. I've never met one that did general towing that had two brain cells to rub together. Heavy equipment and rigging, sure, those guys are great, but for light vehicle work all I think you need is a drivers license, a pistol and a truck to get in to that line of work.

Sorry. I hope your transmission didn't get roached.

The Bolt fell out of neutral the moment the jumper cables were removed. The cables were not long enough to get the Bolt on the truck while connected.
 
DanDietrich said:
I have been through similar crap with my Leaf a few times, minus the towing mishaps. A USB charged jump start battery, left plugged in for 10 minutes or so, will usually charge the 12 volt enough to boot up.

With a dead cell, I could have charged all day without success.
 
TedMichon said:
The Bolt fell out of neutral the moment the jumper cables were removed. The cables were not long enough to get the Bolt on the truck while connected.

Not surprised. What a pain in the ass. I'm surprised the tow drivers don't have a portable jumper rig these days, but maybe procedure ought to be to leave one attached while the vehicle is loaded and unloaded (unless Chevy wants to do something smart and put a bootstrap button under the hood or somewhere to engage the DC-DC converter to boot the car off the traction pack.

Let's be honest though, the only good reason to even HAVE that lead-acid battery in there is to freak people out when you give them a jumpstart. That battery has well under a half KWH worth of juice in it. There's no reason that the traction pack can't allocate that much power to the hazard flashers before shutting down if we really want to be in gas car emulation mode.

Bottom line - There's no need to have a giant lump of acid dipped toxic heavy metals doing a job better suited to a modest capacitor and the pre-existing DC-DC converter, especially when the drivetrain is at risk - And if Chevy is so concerned about being able to boot the 12V system, then put in a + terminal somewhere so it can be "jumped" and save 40 lbs of weight under the hood.
 
Pigwich said:
Bottom line - There's no need to have a giant lump of acid dipped toxic heavy metals doing a job better suited to a modest capacitor and the pre-existing DC-DC converter
The 12V battery and associated equipment is an extra cost, so I have to assume that there's a good reason that all electric cars have one. A big factor, I suspect, is to keep the high voltage battery disconnected for safety reasons when the car is unattended.
 
There's no need to have a giant lump of acid dipped toxic heavy metals doing a job better suited to a modest capacitor and the pre-existing DC-DC converter, especially when the drivetrain is at risk - And if Chevy is so concerned about being able to boot the 12V system, then put in a + terminal somewhere so it can be "jumped" and save 40 lbs of weight under the hood.

I've wondered about this as well, the only rational reason I could think of was that the rest of the vehicle "infrastructure" (radio, lights, etc) is a re-use from conventional vehicles and the manufacturer didn't want to spend the money to come up with all new parts. But, if that's the case, wouldn't a better solution be a high to low voltage DC converter to run the 12V items?

Does anybody know if the Tesla is designed this way? Since that's the only EV on the market that's truly a clean sheet of paper design, wondering if they chose the same approach as Ford, GM, Nissan etc.
 
Campfamily said:
Does anybody know if the Tesla is designed this way? Since that's the only EV on the market that's truly a clean sheet of paper design, wondering if they chose the same approach as Ford, GM, Nissan etc.

My friend tells me that his brand-new Model 3 does in fact have a lead battery. Since that's Tesla's most recent design, I'm sure they have a good reason for it.
 
SeanNelson said:
Pigwich said:
Bottom line - There's no need to have a giant lump of acid dipped toxic heavy metals doing a job better suited to a modest capacitor and the pre-existing DC-DC converter
The 12V battery and associated equipment is an extra cost, so I have to assume that there's a good reason that all electric cars have one. A big factor, I suspect, is to keep the high voltage battery disconnected for safety reasons when the car is unattended.


Winner. The 12V battery is required for safety. An EV is required to have a Battery Disconnect Unit or BDU. The BDU unit acts much like a ground fault breaker in your kitchen or bathroom making sure of the integrity of the High Voltage electrical system before closing the contactors that isolate the HV traction battery. The BDU is powered by 12V but could be 48V or other voltage that is less than 60V. 12V car batteries are common, "standard" and relatively inexpensive.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.305
 
SeanNelson said:
Pigwich said:
Bottom line - There's no need to have a giant lump of acid dipped toxic heavy metals doing a job better suited to a modest capacitor and the pre-existing DC-DC converter
The 12V battery and associated equipment is an extra cost, so I have to assume that there's a good reason that all electric cars have one. A big factor, I suspect, is to keep the high voltage battery disconnected for safety reasons when the car is unattended.

Actually, the Ioniq EV doesn't have a lead-acid 12V battery. Part of the main battery (or, maybe a Li-Ion small 12V battery next to the main battery) is used, and there is a button to hit if the 12V 'portion' ever drains down due to abnormal use, and it is recharged from the main battery. Normal behavior is to keep it charged up from the main battery while the car is running or charging, but there is an 'emergency' button to give it a boost if needed.
 
All great points, although I'd imagine that the traction battery contactors are of the "normally open" variety so it's the absence of 12v that disconnects the high voltage.

So then I wonder about this.. what if the DC-DC converter was actually IN the traction battery module? Or even a modest one anyway? I agree that having no high voltage under the hood when the car is of is pretty nice. But having an extra set of 12v terminals on the traction pack doesn't seem half stupid either, then the sacred 12v system can still exist, plus the added benefit of electronic current limiting (on top of fuses) might also be a safety benefit. I say this because in all the burned out cars that I've seen, the FD always chops the 12V battery out with an abrasive saw, since it's practically an unlimited current source. Of course it's a drop of piss compared to a giant lithium battery in our case, but maybe it's one less thing.
 
Back
Top