adamsocb
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:38 pm

Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm

I believe I now have all of the data to know what a good Bolt Lease deal is. I just confirmed by reverse calculating this offer from Chevrolet.com that the Capital Cost Reduction rebate (CCR) is $2,500 and the "buy" Money Factor (what the bank charges) is 0.0005. If the money factor (Rent) is higher than this the dealer is making extra profit on the "Rent Charge"

The Residual reverse calculates to 60% so there is either a typo on the offer (should be 36,000 miles not 45,000, or GM Finance has increased the residual 2% more (not likely), I will assume a typo and continue to believe the GM Financial chart that has the 36 month Residual Values at LT 58%, 60%, & 61%; Premier 57%, 59%, & 60% for 45,000, 36,000, & 30,000 miles respectively.

For those that don't already know, you can calculate the Money Factor by dividing the monthly rent charge quoted by the (adjusted capitalized cost + residual) on the lease agreement.

The only Fees involved should be the Lease Acquisition Fee ($595), some minor Documentation Fees <$100 (I am using $80), and a small CA State Environmental/tire Fee <$20 (I am using $9). Licence and Registration (I am using $400 since the DMV calculator is not working). These can be either paid upfront or financed in the adjusted capitalized cost. I am calculating paid upfront, but it doesn't really matter since I am using a fixed $2500 "drive-off" and financing them would just mean a larger down payment which makes the net or adjusted capitalized cost the same (There is a slight advantage to paying for them upfront since you pay use tax on the CCR down payment)

The delta between Invoice and MSRP is $1,645 for a Base LT and $1,828 for a loaded Premier. The reserve credit is $200-$150 depending on whether the dealer is or isn't on GM Floor Plan. So dealer profit at MSRP without marking anything up is $1,845 to $2028. The profit on Rent Charge markup is 90%-70% depending on whether the dealer is or isn't on GM Floor Plan, so this seems to be where the dealer is making a "hidden" profit.

I am using $2,500 drive-off since that will be offset by the CA CVRP Rebate.

Bottom line:
Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ MSRP $36,620 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $382 per month. $15,886.26 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ Invoice $35,155 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $352 per month. $14,825 Total of Payments

Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on Loaded Premier @ MSRP $43,030 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $483 per month. $19,322.16 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Loaded Premier @ Invoice $41,202 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $439 per month. $17,861 Total of Payments

Now its off to see how little the dealers are willing to make. :mrgreen:
Last edited by adamsocb on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
EV's:
2011 Volt (turned in Feb 2014)
2014 Spark EV (Lease Up Feb 2017)
2017 Bolt EV Premier, all options
Gas Cars:
2014 Corvette Stingray
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
2000 ASA Stock Car

Ac108

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Do your monthly payments include sales tax?
And what money factor are you using?

adamsocb
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:53 pm

Ac108 wrote:Do your monthly payments include sales tax?
And what money factor are you using?


Yes, monthly payments and Capital Cost Reduction include 8% CA sales tax.

Money Factor is the GM Financial California and Oregon Supported Program Top Tier Credit A+ or A1 0.0005. Not available unless you are a resident of CA or OR. This is what GM Financial is charging, anything above 0.0005 is 90% profit for the dealer.
EV's:
2011 Volt (turned in Feb 2014)
2014 Spark EV (Lease Up Feb 2017)
2017 Bolt EV Premier, all options
Gas Cars:
2014 Corvette Stingray
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
2000 ASA Stock Car

tgreene
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:43 am

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:06 pm

adamsocb wrote:Bottom line:
Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ MSRP $36,620 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $382 per month. $15,886.26 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ Invoice $36030 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $352 per month. $14,825 Total of Payments



Is it true that the difference between the Base LT MSRP and Invoice prices is only $590? Not a lot of room!

LeftieBiker
Posts: 793
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:13 am

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:48 am

I suggest that you include two options in all of your calculations: the $750 DC Fast Charge port, and the $500 (?) Driver Comfort package, with heated seats and steering wheel. A few people may not want them but almost all will. It also seems that about half the folks interested in a Bolt want one of the $395 extra-charge exterior colors.
2018 Nissan Leaf SL with Pro Pilot

2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf modules.

adamsocb
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:37 am

tgreene wrote: Is it true that the difference between the Base LT MSRP and Invoice prices is only $590? Not a lot of room!



My Bad, the number was a typo. I have corrected. I also found out the Invoice price from Edmunds I was using does not include the approximately $850 for Dealer Contributions to advertising etc. So the effective invoice is more than I show above. Still not a lot of room, only about $1,000. However the holdback and finance credit is another $1,800-$1,900 so they make that too if they move the car quickly.
EV's:
2011 Volt (turned in Feb 2014)
2014 Spark EV (Lease Up Feb 2017)
2017 Bolt EV Premier, all options
Gas Cars:
2014 Corvette Stingray
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
2000 ASA Stock Car

adamsocb
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:36 am

I made a deal with a Fleet Manager friend of mine. Here is the low-down.

The GMF Supported Money Factor IS 0.00072 which equals an APR of 1.73%, he showed me on the GMF system so apparently the 0.0005 MF is NOT currently available.

I am not going to post the final price to protect my relationship with my friend, but it was very fair. My MF is the 0.00072 (wholesale rate). I don't think a lower total of payments is possible right now unless you qualify for GM Supplier or Employee pricing.

I will check out the car in daylight tomorrow and if all is well, and the dealer's Finance & Insurance department doesn't modify the deal, pick it up.

For reference the car is a Cajun Red Premier with all options. MSRP $43,905 (inc. destination) 36 month, 36,000 mile, 59% residual, 0.00072 MF, 7.75% sales tax, $595 Lease Acquisition, $80 Doc Fee, $396 License & Registration

I calculated the payments at both MSRP and Invoice to show the range of a fair deal:

At MSRP agreed price, the deal would be $2,500 Drive-Off and $497 per month including all taxes and fees. Total of payments $19,883.

At effective Invoice ($42,077+$430.30 IMR+$430.30 LMA) = $42,938 agreed price, the deal would be $2,500 Drive-Off and $466 per month including all taxes and fees. Total of payments $18814.

By the way, the dealer gets a holdback of $1290 and Wholesale Finance Credit of $200 so they are still making a (gross) profit at invoice, however they do have to pay rent, wages, taxes, and utilities so that $1,500 won't go far.

Bottom Line Again -- A straight dealer will show you the actual GM Invoice from Detroit and the GM Financial Lease Worksheet for your offer. You can use this data to validate any deal you are offered.
EV's:
2011 Volt (turned in Feb 2014)
2014 Spark EV (Lease Up Feb 2017)
2017 Bolt EV Premier, all options
Gas Cars:
2014 Corvette Stingray
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
2000 ASA Stock Car

JupiterMoon
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:33 am

adamsocb wrote:I believe I now have all of the data to know what a good Bolt Lease deal is. I just confirmed by reverse calculating this offer from Chevrolet.com that the Capital Cost Reduction rebate (CCR) is $2,500 and the "buy" Money Factor (what the bank charges) is 0.0005. If the money factor (Rent) is higher than this the dealer is making extra profit on the "Rent Charge"

The Residual reverse calculates to 60% so there is either a typo on the offer (should be 36,000 miles not 45,000, or GM Finance has increased the residual 2% more (not likely), I will assume a typo and continue to believe the GM Financial chart that has the 36 month Residual Values at LT 58%, 60%, & 61%; Premier 57%, 59%, & 60% for 45,000, 36,000, & 30,000 miles respectively.

For those that don't already know, you can calculate the Money Factor by dividing the monthly rent charge quoted by the (adjusted capitalized cost + residual) on the lease agreement.

The only Fees involved should be the Lease Acquisition Fee ($595), some minor Documentation Fees <$100 (I am using $80), and a small CA State Environmental/tire Fee <$20 (I am using $9). Licence and Registration (I am using $400 since the DMV calculator is not working). These can be either paid upfront or financed in the adjusted capitalized cost. I am calculating paid upfront, but it doesn't really matter since I am using a fixed $2500 "drive-off" and financing them would just mean a larger down payment which makes the net or adjusted capitalized cost the same (There is a slight advantage to paying for them upfront since you pay use tax on the CCR down payment)

The delta between Invoice and MSRP is $1,645 for a Base LT and $1,828 for a loaded Premier. The reserve credit is $200-$150 depending on whether the dealer is or isn't on GM Floor Plan. So dealer profit at MSRP without marking anything up is $1,845 to $2028. The profit on Rent Charge markup is 90%-70% depending on whether the dealer is or isn't on GM Floor Plan, so this seems to be where the dealer is making a "hidden" profit.

I am using $2,500 drive-off since that will be offset by the CA CVRP Rebate.

Bottom line:
Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ MSRP $36,620 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $382 per month. $15,886.26 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ Invoice $35,155 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $352 per month. $14,825 Total of Payments

Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on Loaded Premier @ MSRP $43,030 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $483 per month. $19,322.16 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Loaded Premier @ Invoice $41,202 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $439 per month. $17,861 Total of Payments

Now its off to see how little the dealers are willing to make. :mrgreen:


You come out a bit high. If you want, I can email you my spreadsheet and see if you can play around with it and give me feedback.

JupiterMoon
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:54 am

JupiterMoon wrote:
adamsocb wrote:I believe I now have all of the data to know what a good Bolt Lease deal is. I just confirmed by reverse calculating this offer from Chevrolet.com that the Capital Cost Reduction rebate (CCR) is $2,500 and the "buy" Money Factor (what the bank charges) is 0.0005. If the money factor (Rent) is higher than this the dealer is making extra profit on the "Rent Charge"

The Residual reverse calculates to 60% so there is either a typo on the offer (should be 36,000 miles not 45,000, or GM Finance has increased the residual 2% more (not likely), I will assume a typo and continue to believe the GM Financial chart that has the 36 month Residual Values at LT 58%, 60%, & 61%; Premier 57%, 59%, & 60% for 45,000, 36,000, & 30,000 miles respectively.

For those that don't already know, you can calculate the Money Factor by dividing the monthly rent charge quoted by the (adjusted capitalized cost + residual) on the lease agreement.

The only Fees involved should be the Lease Acquisition Fee ($595), some minor Documentation Fees <$100 (I am using $80), and a small CA State Environmental/tire Fee <$20 (I am using $9). Licence and Registration (I am using $400 since the DMV calculator is not working). These can be either paid upfront or financed in the adjusted capitalized cost. I am calculating paid upfront, but it doesn't really matter since I am using a fixed $2500 "drive-off" and financing them would just mean a larger down payment which makes the net or adjusted capitalized cost the same (There is a slight advantage to paying for them upfront since you pay use tax on the CCR down payment)

The delta between Invoice and MSRP is $1,645 for a Base LT and $1,828 for a loaded Premier. The reserve credit is $200-$150 depending on whether the dealer is or isn't on GM Floor Plan. So dealer profit at MSRP without marking anything up is $1,845 to $2028. The profit on Rent Charge markup is 90%-70% depending on whether the dealer is or isn't on GM Floor Plan, so this seems to be where the dealer is making a "hidden" profit.

I am using $2,500 drive-off since that will be offset by the CA CVRP Rebate.

Bottom line:
Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ MSRP $36,620 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $382 per month. $15,886.26 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Base LT @ Invoice $35,155 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $352 per month. $14,825 Total of Payments

Fair deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on Loaded Premier @ MSRP $43,030 (+$875 delivery) with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $483 per month. $19,322.16 Total of Payments
Great deal for a 36 month 36,000 mile lease deal on a Loaded Premier @ Invoice $41,202 (+$875 delivery) +$500 with 8% sales tax is $2500 drive off and $439 per month. $17,861 Total of Payments

Now its off to see how little the dealers are willing to make. :mrgreen:


You come out a bit high. If you want, I can email you my spreadsheet and see if you can play around with it and give me feedback.


A very good general rule of thumb.

1) Every 1000 the MSRP is lowered, the payment changes by $15-16.
2) Every 1000 the Cap Cost is lowered the payment changes $30-31.

fromport
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Now I'm Ready to Negotiate

Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:25 pm

JupiterMoon wrote:You come out a bit high. If you want, I can email you my spreadsheet and see if you can play around with it and give me feedback.


Could you upload your spreadsheet to google spreadsheet and post a URL ?
That way we can all learn from it
2011-2014 nissan leaf 32kmiles (returned at end of lease)
2 x 2014 toyoya rave4ev (leased until 2017) 33k &17k miles
2016-now 2002 GEM NEV E825 6K miles
2016-now 2002 GEM NEV E825 with truck bed, converting to li-ion
2019 -now bolt premier

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