SparkE
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:17 am

BoltEV wrote:
rjbailey wrote:Now I'm tempted to just bring in a check at lease end and be done with it. Plus, I'd keep my red CA HOV stickers. What would y'all do?

Sales tax is a big factor in California. When you purchase the lease at the residual you must also pay the outstanding sales tax (and license fees of course).

Consider, as I did, a new purchase with “loyalty” discounts for a 2020 model with the newest HOV stickers.

Approaching my mileage limit last year, I purchased a new Premier 2019 msrp $44,250 for $36,500 out the door, instead of my 2017 residual at $25,000 plus tax and license.


On the one hand I agree with BoltEV - getting a car 3 years newer, with 30-45K fewer miles, for a "small" price difference ($10K) is tempting.

However, when it is time for me/us to get a second EV (not the original question, I admit), I will be seriously looking at used prices. (Again in agreement with BoltEV) I will be comparing prices on used Bolts with "new, but sold with amazing rebates/incentives from GM" Bolts.

However, remember that the Bolts started "really" shipping in Jan of 2017 (< 600 shipped in Dec '06) and it wasn't until halfway through the year that they were available in more than a few states. So not that many have really hit the used market yet; the (possible) lease return "glut" hasn't really kicked in yet. I would expect that the few available are being snapped up (by those in areas that were poorly serviced before, using internet used car sales conduits).

My guess is that 2017 Bolts will be selling for around $15K (or less for high-mileage units) pretty soon (next 8 months or so).

Saving $15-$20K is rather tempting (there are already some avail *today* in CA for right around $20K).

rjbailey
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:18 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:50 am

BoltEV wrote:...Approaching my mileage limit last year, I purchased a new Premier 2019 msrp $44,250 for $36,500 out the door, instead of my 2017 residual at $25,000 plus tax and license.

And that's where I'm currently leaning too. I'll be damned.

gpsman
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:48 am

Anyone turn one in yet? Anyone negotiate the residual? My 2017 is up Feb. 4th.

Nothing wrong with mine.
Figure the car was worth $30k new.
I will have paid about $15k over the past 3 years. I'd be willing to pay up to $15k in residual but agree it would be stupid to pay over MSRP.
(Mine is an LT with 35,700 on a 36,000 mile lease right now.

BoltEV
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:50 pm

gpsman wrote:Anyone turn one in yet? Anyone negotiate the residual? My 2017 is up Feb. 4th...

My 3 year lease commenced January 3, 2017 and I projected that I would hit my mileage cap (45,000) by mid September. I did not want to “waste” any payments on mileage penalties, so my decision was to buy out my lease for the residual or purchase a new vehicle.

In early July, I received a letter from a Chevy dealer with a “July 4th certificate” to purchase a new Bolt EV with an accommodation on my current lease payments.

Due to recouperation from knee surgery, I was able to schedule an appointment at the dealer (25 miles away from my home) for three weeks later.

To make a long story short, this offer was bogus: they rolled the remaining lease payments into the cost of the new Bolt EV putting me in the unenviable position of paying for a lease that I no longer possessed.

When I expressed incredulity, the salesman simply replied that I did not have to accept their offer! I didn’t!

I then surveyed three other dealers offers for a new Bolt EV. The best offer came from a dealer 45 miles from my home, but would expire July 31st. I drove down to that dealer and they lived up to their offer and I purchased my 2019 Bolt EV (msrp $44,250) for $36,500 out the door.

I continued to drive my 2017 Bolt EV intil I hit 44,640 miles on September 10th and returned it to a local dealer ( to end the now “double payment” of car insurance). I owed three more payments at that point.

Some weeks later, GM Financial sent me a bill for the remaining three payments plus the $495 end of lease payment. I contacted GM and resupplied paperwork that showed with the new purchase, the $495 was supposed to be waived.

They corrected the bill and agreed to two equal payments, which pushed these payments out to November; close to the original last payment due in December.
Last edited by BoltEV on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SparkE
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:58 pm

The current price (in terms of "what is a fair price"), based on a few services (very, very few under $20K at this time) :

https://www.carvana.com/cars/chevrolet- ... aWNlIn0%3D

https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-s ... t/bolt-ev/
{{ There's a 63K -mile 'Premier' in Fontana, CA for $17K !! }}

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventory ... tity=d2397

{{Shit! There's a 2015 SparkEV for under $7K! 23K miles! }}

gpsman
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:28 am

Holy Cow! I just visited my local (CA) dealer.

Prices on new 2020's are $11,000 below MSRP and like you said, the return fee is waived if you take home a new one.

New base model LT plus DCFC $27,150 before taxes.

To buy my 3 year old car with 36,000 miles on the odometer is $24,232 plus taxes.

This is a bit too reminiscent of the GM EV1.
They really don't want you to buy these cars.
Only want to lease you one. If I buy I pay $1500 more because I loose the lease loyalty cash.

rjbailey
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:18 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:01 am

Agreed, it's impressive. Are you sure the lease loyalty incentive works that way? It appears to be an inducement to buy as well.

gpsman wrote:Holy Cow! I just visited my local (CA) dealer.

Prices on new 2020's are $11,000 below MSRP and like you said, the return fee is waived if you take home a new one.

New base model LT plus DCFC $27,150 before taxes.

To buy my 3 year old car with 36,000 miles on the odometer is $24,232 plus taxes.

This is a bit too reminiscent of the GM EV1.
They really don't want you to buy these cars.
Only want to lease you one. If I buy I pay $1500 more because I loose the lease loyalty cash.

gpsman
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:22 pm

I'll ask for lease loyalty cash info clarification.
I have a few more days before having to pull the trigger.

BerkeleyBowlt
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:21 pm

(I posted this on oReddit, but am posting it here because I think it is useful for someone deciding whether to buy a 2020 Bolt vs their existing lease)

Yesterday I got a 2020 Oasis Blue Premier to replace my 2017 Cajun Red Premier. (Neighbor: "That car is remarkably blue." I'm not sure she meant it as a compliment, but I like the color.)

The incentives are astonishing. Mine was:
- MSRP $44,245
- Dealer discount: -1,389
- Chevy consumer cash rebate: -8,500
- Chevrolet dealer cash: -2,500
- GM Lease loyalty rebate: -1,500
- (Net before taxes + fees: $30,356)
- Sales tax: 3,972 (tax is charged on 44,245)
- Doc fees: 115
- DMV Registration: 559
- "Out the door": $35,002

This was the advertised price on their website, with no haggling (from Concord Chevrolet in California).

Plus it qualifies for $4,675 in after-purchase credits:

- Federal tax credit: $1,875
- California tax credit: $2,000
- PG&E rebate: $800

So the actual cost to me, including all taxes, fees, and rebates, is $30,327. The residual buyout on my 2017 Bolt was $27,340 including sales tax and fees, so I got a three year newer car for $2,987 more than I would have paid to buy out the lease. If you like your 2017 leased Bolt, you should absolutely consider buying a new one before the incentives expire February 3.

As far as the car, it really is almost unchanged compared to the 2017. The only changes I can find are:

- the extra range (which seems to be real);
- the rearview mirror camera is higher resolution, with noticeably better nighttime usability and options to zoom(!) or set the view higher or lower (as if the back camera were tilting, although I'm sure you're really just choosing to crop the top or bottom in software);
- the center console backup camera is higher resolution, with better visualization lines and a new "curb view" ;
- there's a new top-level menu interface button to immediately view the camera, so it only takes one click instead of 2 (I really wish it was a physical button, though, because it's still two clicks instead of 3 if you're using CarPlay);
- the "Heat/AC" button is split into two buttons so you can control them separately;
- the "hilltop reserve" is replaced with a charge limit setting of 5% increments so you can choose 100%, 95%, 90%, 85%, etc.;
- the white dashboard texture is more complex and "interesting". Same for the exterior front grille;
- the charging port has a little raised bump so you can feel it in the dark;
- the much-loathed "keypass" seems to be completely gone.

Everything else seems identical. I find no change in seat comfort, suspension, ride, etc.

Finally, I considered replacing it with a Tesla Model 3, but preferred the Bolt at this price. In a test drive, the Model 3 was more "luxurious" and had a better ride, which was nice, and the "autopilot" (adaptive cruise control and automatic steering within a lane) was neat. But the list of what it didn't have that I like and use in the Bolt was substantial, too:

- no rear cross-traffic radar when backing up;
- no simulated "overhead view" camera for parking;
- no rearview mirror camera;
- no blindspot alerts in side mirrors (they are in the center display but it's a computer visualization that only shows cars that are pretty close to you -- the Bolt warnings seem to show cars further back);
- no support for Apple CarPlay.

In addition, the Model 3 is 21" longer than the Bolt with no real increase in storage to compensate. I mostly drive the Bolt around Berkeley, where parking and traffic are horrible and you really benefit from a smaller car -- almost 2 feet more length is a big difference. Also, the Tesla just felt "heavier" -- yes, there's more acceleration if you floor it (I did so on the test drive and felt slightly nauseous like I was on a roller coaster), but at slow speeds the Bolt feels smaller, lighter and peppier. When I got back into the Bolt after the test drive it seemed more fun. If I had a commute where I drove 100 miles a day on the freeway, I would probably have chosen the Tesla for the "self-driving" features and luxury, but for a city car, the Bolt felt more practical.
Robert Mathews
Cajun Red Bolt Premier

PackardV8
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:37 pm

Thanks for the very detailed and authoritative report. Your out-the-door includes every last dollar paid; I've noticed others leaving out sales tax, document fees, license and other pertinent information.

We have a 2017 Cajun Red Premier like yours. I should ask our dealer what it would cost to trade up, but ours has been so perfect, it may be asking for trouble to try a newer one.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

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