2017 Nissan Leaf Hits Back At Chevrolet Bolt

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westernkicks

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http://nseavoice.com/cars/2017-nissan-leaf-hits-back-at-chevrolet-bolt-920019958.html

If you are working in the marketing department of Nissan USA, you deserve a good pat on the back for doing a mighty fine job in promoting the Leaf. We say this because the Leaf continues to sell exceptionally well and this is despite of its outdated offerings.

The Leaf is still stuck in the 110 miles of driving range zone and this is far from good for a car that is seen as a pioneer model in the EV market. The industry has already shifted to 200 miles of driving range which means that a new generation Leaf is desperately needed in order for the car to be great again.

The release of the Chevrolet Bolt EV got us predicting the death of the Leaf entirely but we are far from correct. The month of December saw the Leaf recording 1,899 units sold, which translates to 41% increase from a year ago. It just makes no sense at all.

Well, we are in 2017 now and Nissan has confirmed that they have some big things to show at various automotive events. Their first major product unveiling will be taking place at the next Detroit Auto Show and we can only pray that it will be the next-gen Leaf.
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westernkicks said:
http://nseavoice.com/cars/2017-nissan-leaf-hits-back-at-chevrolet-bolt-920019958.html

If you are working in the marketing department of Nissan USA, you deserve a good pat on the back for doing a mighty fine job in promoting the Leaf. We say this because the Leaf continues to sell exceptionally well and this is despite of its outdated offerings.

The Leaf is still stuck in the 110 miles of driving range zone and this is far from good for a car that is seen as a pioneer model in the EV market. The industry has already shifted to 200 miles of driving range which means that a new generation Leaf is desperately needed in order for the car to be great again.

The release of the Chevrolet Bolt EV got us predicting the death of the Leaf entirely but we are far from correct. The month of December saw the Leaf recording 1,899 units sold, which translates to 41% increase from a year ago. It just makes no sense at all.

Well, we are in 2017 now and Nissan has confirmed that they have some big things to show at various automotive events. Their first major product unveiling will be taking place at the next Detroit Auto Show and we can only pray that it will be the next-gen Leaf.
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There is no "hitting back" in this article
 
The Volt also had it's best sales month ever in December. I suspect that a lot of people believe the $7500 tax incentive will evaporate under Trump and they've decided to jump in while they can still get it for the 2016 tax year.

We'll see what happens to Leaf sales in the next 6 months as the Bolt EV becomes more widely available. They'll have to drop the price and/or increase the range to compete.
 
Nissan has been discounting the Leaf in order to move metal. If they don't get the next Leaf to market soon (say, by this summer - when the Bolt is available nationwide), it will be over for them. I can't imagine they are willing to give up the EV market. This would only happen if they absolutely can't compete. I would find that surprising to say the least.

Anyway, Nissan is probably facing a rocky 2017 for EV sales in the US. They may just try to milk other markets. Or they may surprise us in Detroit with a new Leaf. Either way, CES was a big disappointment for me in terms of EV news.
 
If GM manages to get the Bolt out there in numbers and can offer competitive terms then I think Nissan is going to have a hell of a time shifting Leafs. It is inferior to the Bolt in basically all respects. It can't even stand out on efficiency like the Ioniq. For that matter if I were even thinking about buying a new Leaf I'd have to go to the Ioniq first. Nissan really dropped the ball here.

That said you can buy cheap used Leafs for less than $8000. I just picked up a 2013 with 23000 miles for $7500. At that price who cares about low range? I suppose that's not going to help Nissan move new Leafs either though.
 
Well, if you can get a 3-year lease on a 100mi LEAF for $120/mo, but have to shell out $350/mo (or more!) for a Bolt, then a lot of LEAFs will continue to be sold. Most families living in a single family home (like mine) work just fine with 1 gas vehicle and one 100-mi EV. That is a HUGE demographic.

But the key thing is that Nissan will have to drop prices on its LEAF pretty significantly for it to compete. If the prices on new LEAFs drop by a bunch, then so will prices on the 3-year-old lease returns. If I can get a ~20K mi used LEAF for around $5K I'd go out and buy one today.
 
https://electrek.co/2017/06/30/nissan-leaf-2018-next-gen-2/

So we have a fixed date for the Leaf 2 - 5 September. And Nissan has a strong record of having the car stocked in dealerships right around the time it's released. The thing that makes me think the Leaf 2 might soar is that Nissan is apparently going to offer it with two battery packs. So that means if you only need 120 miles range, you get the $20K leaf. If you need the 200 miles, you get the more expensive.
 
ScooterCT said:
So we have a fixed date for the Leaf 2 - 5 September. And Nissan has a strong record of having the car stocked in dealerships right around the time it's released. The thing that makes me think the Leaf 2 might soar is that Nissan is apparently going to offer it with two battery packs. So that means if you only need 120 miles range, you get the $20K leaf. If you need the 200 miles, you get the more expensive.
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I'm a little bit skeptical that the Leaf 2 will be able to travel as far as the Bolt after having seen competitor after competitor in the plug-in hybrid market fail to match GM's Volt on all-electric range or performance. Yeah, I know that they're different markets, but it's a disappointing trend.

And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.

But even so, I'm looking forward to the announcement and I really do hope that it provides some good stiff competition.
 
SeanNelson said:
And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.
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I'm puzzled by this, based on your location. Even with the early Leafs, you should be looking at 10 years or more to get to 70%. No thermal management power drain, simple should mean more reliable and so on.
 
ScooterCT said:
So we have a fixed date for the Leaf 2 - 5 September. And Nissan has a strong record of having the car stocked in dealerships right around the time it's released. The thing that makes me think the Leaf 2 might soar is that Nissan is apparently going to offer it with two battery packs. So that means if you only need 120 miles range, you get the $20K leaf. If you need the 200 miles, you get the more expensive.
Click to expand...

The LEAF 2 will NOT be available and in stock at the time of the September announcement. They are the "exclusive automotive sponsor" of National Drive Electric Week (Sept 9-16th), and will only be able to provide static displays in "select markets". No test drives, no inventory. It's becoming more likely that we will see a Bolt like rollout with a few markets (CA?) getting shipments by the end of the year and general availability sometime in 2018.

While there is some credence to the 2 pack size options, $20K for the base unit ain't gonna happen (unless you mean after incentives - and even that is a stretch).
 
WetEV said:
SeanNelson said:
And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.
Click to expand...


I'm puzzled by this, based on your location. Even with the early Leafs, you should be looking at 10 years or more to get to 70%. No thermal management power drain, simple should mean more reliable and so on.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. My "original chemistry" 2012 Leaf battery is holding up acceptably well after 5+ years (down to about 80%). The new batteries are even better.
 
While there is some credence to the 2 pack size options, $20K for the base unit ain't gonna happen (unless you mean after incentives - and even that is a stretch).
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$20k for a Leaf S after incentives seems likely. An SV will likely be $35-37k, depending on options. I hope they finally offer the SL with cloth interior, as I'd be willing to pay (lease) $38k for an SL with Premium Package. It looks like the 60kwh pack won't be available until next year.
 
WetEV said:
SeanNelson said:
And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.
Click to expand...
I'm puzzled by this, based on your location. Even with the early Leafs, you should be looking at 10 years or more to get to 70%. No thermal management power drain, simple should mean more reliable and so on.
Click to expand...
Although our temperatures are generally mild, this time of year it gets very hot in my garage.
 
On cars.com, you can buy a used Nissan Leaf with 35,000 miles for $6,000. You can then go to your Nissan dealer and swap in a new battery pack on your dollar for another $6,000. You have a 100+ mile BEV with a new 24KW battery for $12,000.

http://insideevs.com/breaking-nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-5499-new-packs-heat-durable/

There are some gotchas, but it seems like a cool deal if you don't need much range and don't hate the Leaf styling.
 
You can then go to your Nissan dealer and swap in a new battery pack on your dollar for another $6,000. You have a 100+ mile BEV with a new 24KW battery for $12,000.
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With the 24kwh pack you'd get an 80 mile EV in real world driving. The 30kwh Leaf is rated for 107 EPA miles. You can find used 2016 30kwh Leafs for about $16k.
 
LeftieBiker said:
You can then go to your Nissan dealer and swap in a new battery pack on your dollar for another $6,000. You have a 100+ mile BEV with a new 24KW battery for $12,000.
Click to expand...

With the 24kwh pack you'd get an 80 mile EV in real world driving. The 30kwh Leaf is rated for 107 EPA miles. You can find used 2016 30kwh Leafs for about $16k.
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It's also worth noting you cannot swap a 30 kWh pack into a 24 kWh car.
 
SeanNelson said:
Although our temperatures are generally mild, this time of year it gets very hot in my garage.
Click to expand...

This seems like it would be a problem with any EV. With a TMS, the TMS is going to be running all summer keeping the battery just warm and the garage even hotter than it is today.

I'd suggest insulating the ceiling and adding vents.
 
WetEV said:
SeanNelson said:
Although our temperatures are generally mild, this time of year it gets very hot in my garage.
Click to expand...
This seems like it would be a problem with any EV. With a TMS, the TMS is going to be running all summer keeping the battery just warm and the garage even hotter than it is today.
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I don't really care if the garage is hotter as long as the battery is OK.
 

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