SparkEVPilot
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:42 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: What do they want to know?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:02 pm

SparkEVPilot wrote:
Evoforce wrote:
SparkEVPilot wrote:I asked myself this same question when I first started driving Spark EVs. To answer the question, each individual driver needs to determine how he / she is going to use the car 85% of the time. For me, it is local driving and, where DCFC chargers are available, travel to locations outside of the safe round trip range of my Spark EV. The Spark EV easily meets 85 - 90% of my daily driving needs. The other 10 - 15% is being covered by driving my pickup truck or renting a car. This has been working for me for 3 years now.


You are correct! However a Bolt has a much larger battery pack than a Spark and it is restricted from using this advantage because of the poor DCFC infrastructure whether it is within larger cities or passing from city to city or state to state. ChargePoint and other providers need to get on the stick! A car with 238 mile range should be able to be used 99% of the time (think truck 1-5%) and be the only car for long or short trips consequently not having to rely on renting or using a secondary vehicle.

Electrify America has proposed a plan. Go to https://www.electrifyamerica.com/our-plan to see what they plan to do. But, in my opinion, longer range electric vehicles like the Chevy Bolt and the Tesla M3 are still going to be limited as to where they can comfortably go as compared to an ICE. And, even if longer range EVs can be driven further between charging stops, will the total time required to recharge at each charging stop along a long distance trip route be too much for the driver and occupants to accept?

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:25 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: What do they want to know?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:26 pm

One of the top three I get asked is "how much does it cost to charge".

At home, it costs me the same as $1.20/gallon for gas. If I use a ChargePoint charger, like they have at the mall, it costs the same as $6/gallon for gas.

ChargePoint! Stop the Extortion! Your fees are simply too high. It costs me less to charge at an EVGo quick charger than on your slow L2 EVSEs. And it's all because of the unreal burden you put on the host for fees.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

SeanNelson
Posts: 1294
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:43 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: What do they want to know?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:30 pm

Evoforce wrote:Why do you drive a car that has practically no charging stations away from home to quickly charge at?

Every charging station that gets installed makes my car more useful. And a LOT of new stations are being installed...

DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:19 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: What do they want to know?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:37 pm

My favorite is always, “you mean it doesn’t take any gas at all?”

Six years, and 3 BEVs and I still get this? On the plus side, the lack of demand makes negotiating easier.

But c’mon ChargePoint, alter your business model a bit and install your own multiple unit super high powered stations like Tesla does and grab some market share before we all have to get model 3s.
Leaf SL 2012-2014
Leaf SV 2014-2017
Bolt LT 2017-
6.72 kW Solar

SparkEVPilot
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:42 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: What do they want to know?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Evoforce wrote:
SparkEVPilot wrote:
Evoforce wrote:Why do you drive a car that has practically no charging stations away from home to quickly charge at? What good is it to have a longer range EV when there is no quick/fast charging available on moderate to long trips from home?

I asked myself this same question when I first started driving Spark EVs. To answer the question, each individual driver needs to determine how he / she is going to use the car 85% of the time. For me, it is local driving and, where DCFC chargers are available, travel to locations outside of the safe round trip range of my Spark EV. The Spark EV easily meets 85 - 90% of my daily driving needs. The other 10 - 15% is being covered by driving my pickup truck or renting a car. This has been working for me for 3 years now.


You are correct! However a Bolt has a much larger battery pack than a Spark and it is restricted from using this advantage because of the poor DCFC infrastructure whether it is within larger cities or passing from city to city or state to state. ChargePoint and other providers need to get on the stick! A car with 238 mile range should be able to be used 99% of the time (think truck 1-5%) and be the only car for long or short trips consequently not having to rely on renting or using a secondary vehicle.

Your concern reminded me of similar events in past history. When I-5 in California was first opened to travel, gasoline stations were few and far between along the new I-5 highway. In the early 1970s, the Gasoline Crisis in America caused restrictions on the amount of gasoline you could buy at a gasoline station. Put both of these events together and you have a similar problem now facing EVs - the availability of DCFC charging locations and the time required to charge sufficiently in order to get your next charging location. You also have to plan for what you are going to do if you find the DCFC you planned to use at your next charging stop is broken. During the Gasoline Crisis, it was not unusual for a gasoline station to run out of gas and close until their next delivery. To me, it looks like history is repeating itself.

As for the rental car idea? It is much less expensive to rent a vehicle for short periods of time than to be paying for a vehicle and/or all associated expenses just to sit in your driveway collecting dust. My pickup truck is 19 years old and is an example of what I mean. Occasionally, I need to haul something that will not fit in my EV so I use the truck. However, most of the time, the truck just sits in the driveway collecting dust while we run around in our EVs. I still have to pay for registration, insurance, maintenance, etc. for the truck even if I seldom use it. That money could be used to rent a vehicle; even a truck!

Evoforce
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:21 am
Location: AZ

Re: What do they want to know?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:56 am

SparkEVPilot wrote:
Evoforce wrote:
SparkEVPilot wrote:I asked myself this same question when I first started driving Spark EVs. To answer the question, each individual driver needs to determine how he / she is going to use the car 85% of the time. For me, it is local driving and, where DCFC chargers are available, travel to locations outside of the safe round trip range of my Spark EV. The Spark EV easily meets 85 - 90% of my daily driving needs. The other 10 - 15% is being covered by driving my pickup truck or renting a car. This has been working for me for 3 years now.


You are correct! However a Bolt has a much larger battery pack than a Spark and it is restricted from using this advantage because of the poor DCFC infrastructure whether it is within larger cities or passing from city to city or state to state. ChargePoint and other providers need to get on the stick! A car with 238 mile range should be able to be used 99% of the time (think truck 1-5%) and be the only car for long or short trips consequently not having to rely on renting or using a secondary vehicle.

Your concern reminded me of similar events in past history. When I-5 in California was first opened to travel, gasoline stations were few and far between along the new I-5 highway. In the early 1970s, the Gasoline Crisis in America caused restrictions on the amount of gasoline you could buy at a gasoline station. Put both of these events together and you have a similar problem now facing EVs - the availability of DCFC charging locations and the time required to charge sufficiently in order to get your next charging location. You also have to plan for what you are going to do if you find the DCFC you planned to use at your next charging stop is broken. During the Gasoline Crisis, it was not unusual for a gasoline station to run out of gas and close until their next delivery. To me, it looks like history is repeating itself.

As for the rental car idea? It is much less expensive to rent a vehicle for short periods of time than to be paying for a vehicle and/or all associated expenses just to sit in your driveway collecting dust. My pickup truck is 19 years old and is an example of what I mean. Occasionally, I need to haul something that will not fit in my EV so I use the truck. However, most of the time, the truck just sits in the driveway collecting dust while we run around in our EVs. I still have to pay for registration, insurance, maintenance, etc. for the truck even if I seldom use it. That money could be used to rent a vehicle; even a truck!


Yes, I can agree with everything you said. My post was meant for ChargePoint because I want them to get the feeling of what is faced and why us EV owners feel the urgency to have many more fast/quick chargers. While they have posted that their regional manager has a Tesla, I would bet that the rest of their employees mostly do not have even the most basic EV. To (really) connect with us they must first care about and understand the experience of currently living with an EV. Tesla's growing lead in charging infrastructure is not comparable to what the rest of EV's have to endure at this point. I want them to understand... And I want them to install DCFC... :)

DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:19 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: What do they want to know?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:04 am

Except they only install when they have a host. They’ll broker the equipment, but they don’t want to own any. They just want their exorbitant fees. So that leaves us EVgo mostly and a few Greenlots around here, maybe Blink in the West? It’s disappointing because ChargePoint has developed some good high powered modular QCs, but hosts aren’t exactly lining up to install them.
Leaf SL 2012-2014
Leaf SV 2014-2017
Bolt LT 2017-
6.72 kW Solar

Evoforce
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:21 am
Location: AZ

Re: What do they want to know?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:30 am

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:Except they only install when they have a host. They’ll broker the equipment, but they don’t want to own any. They just want their exorbitant fees. So that leaves us EVgo mostly and a few Greenlots around here, maybe Blink in the West? It’s disappointing because ChargePoint has developed some good high powered modular QCs, but hosts aren’t exactly lining up to install them.


I agree! And that is where their salesmanship should come in and ChargePoint needs to start selling owners what we really need along with investing in infrastructure themselves. That is why I am saying that Chargepoint basically doesn't "get it". They can't sell what they do not understand.

Yes, there is a need for level 2 at apartment complexes and workplaces and that is understood because cars can set for many hours on end to get a charge. However, for EV's to proliferate, it would take a ton of charge cords at each of those locations at L2 but less with DCFC. With larger battery cars now upon us, we need more DCFC. ChargePoint, get your salesman to work!

mchapmon
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Arab, Alabama

Re: What do they want to know?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:53 pm

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:My favorite is always, “you mean it doesn’t take any gas at all?”

Six years, and 3 BEVs and I still get this? On the plus side, the lack of demand makes negotiating easier.

But c’mon ChargePoint, alter your business model a bit and install your own multiple unit super high powered stations like Tesla does and grab some market share before we all have to get model 3s.


These forum posts really, really need a like button, or choice of a couple versions of buttons, because I couldn't agree more with the entire last sentence you've written!
2017 Bolt Premiere, Silver Ice, w/DCFC since 3/10/18

DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:19 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: What do they want to know?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:41 am

The trouble with ChargePoint is that they need to make money, and their model is a hard sell. Hosts might get a free DCFC because ChargePoint can arrange for grant money, but installation is on the host, and pricey, with a need for 480 volts. (Although there are 24 kW units that can run on 240 volts)
There’s not enough of a market yet for hosts to invest in DCFC, there’s no profit in it. Besides upfront costs, there’s often repairs, even on brand new equipment. And then utilities can add “demand charges” at peak usage times, but drivers balk if fees are too high, so the host is bound to lose money. That’s a hard sell. Few hosts sign up. Also why ChargePoint won’t self host.

EVgo must get the lions share of OEM promotional backing. I don’t think their fees cover their costs.

Tesla, of course, is brand building, brilliantly.

Infrastructure is developing in Europe, but then, they’re working at eliminating ICE. Fat chance of that here.
Leaf SL 2012-2014
Leaf SV 2014-2017
Bolt LT 2017-
6.72 kW Solar

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