The seats are a deal killer.
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Nagorak said:
Also, the R&D costs for subsequent revisions or redesigns will be less than for the initial version of something very different like the Volt or Bolt.
Note that cars in general often get price reductions within their model cycle, since a design that came out a few years ago may not be as competitive against someone else's new design that did not exist a few years ago. But sometimes price cuts are done in a less obvious way like increased incentives, or including stuff that was formerly optional in the base price or in a lower trim. For example, it is likely that the Driver Confidence II stuff will eventually become standard on all trims as similar stuff becomes more common among other makes (Toyota is making forward collision warning and automatic braking standard on all 2017 models).
roundpeg said:
It is the oversized seat frame which intrudes upon one's senses that bothers many, me included. Some people don't notice it, or aren't bothered. I expect a car seat to be predictable and consistent in its level of comfort, without hard points that suddenly are felt. These fail to provide me that kind of experience.
roundpeg
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boltage said:
For me:
N, N, Premier, 32"
One word: Recaros. If you're willing to spend $40,000 on the functional equivalent of a $15,000 economy car, you can definitely afford to add another $1,200 for comfortable seats.
I'm a seat fanatic. I bought Recaros for a few cars, and you can take them with you from car to car with a new mounting kit.
s
I'm a seat fanatic. I bought Recaros for a few cars, and you can take them with you from car to car with a new mounting kit.
s
ScooterCT said:
How do you deal with side air bags and seat heaters built into the seats? I.e. would your Recaro seats need to have compatible side air bags and seat heaters that the car can connect to?
Recaro does make many OEM seats, but it is not obvious whether a Recaro seat from another GM model (e.g. a Cadillac ATS) will have side air bags and seat heaters that will work in a Bolt (or other non-ATS GM car).
Also, Recaro seats tend to be sporty ones with large bolsters, so some larger people may not find them that comfortable.
Well we will eventually get a satisfaction survey and that is our mechanism to tell GM to change the seats. If everybody who owns/leases a Bolt says "Change the seats" I think they will listen. I can feel the side bolsters on my butt, but it doesn't bother me. I can't feel the frame on the side either. When I get out of the car the plastic hits my legs and that is uncomfortable. My wife who is petite hits her legs on the side also and I know she doesn't like that.
About the Recaro questions. It's been a few years, so i can't speak on airbags. You can buy narrow or wide Recaros. They come heated if desired. They come with manual or power settings as desired. They're simply amazing. I'm not a Recaro marketing robot - just a happy customer who's absolutely picky about what he sits in for 8 hours a day in long trips (back issues).
I sat in the Bolt seat for all of 5 minutes at an auto show. Felt pretty comfy to me, but I'm thin. And 5 minutes is not 8 hours. It'll be interesting to hear how the seats wear on owners after a few months.
For those who care (and have thousands of dollars to burn)...
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/home.html
I sat in the Bolt seat for all of 5 minutes at an auto show. Felt pretty comfy to me, but I'm thin. And 5 minutes is not 8 hours. It'll be interesting to hear how the seats wear on owners after a few months.
For those who care (and have thousands of dollars to burn)...
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/home.html
@ScooterCT: And one could equally say that reverse, a $40,000 car should come with comfortable seats. Period. The Bolt's Fabric seats [LT w/heat] are worse than what I had in my first car from years ago, which was a CHEAPO 1991 Corolla, paid 12k new.
LeftieBiker
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Those leasing a $40k car can't necessarily afford a $1200 seat (front seat set?). Especially not with these leases.
As for the value of these comments being made here: Nissan read comments in the companion Leaf forum years ago, and made many small improvements in the 2013 MY Leaf as a result. You never know.
As for the value of these comments being made here: Nissan read comments in the companion Leaf forum years ago, and made many small improvements in the 2013 MY Leaf as a result. You never know.
I think the arguments about a $40,000 car should come with good seats miss the point. It ain't a $40,000 car. It's a $15,000 car that happens to be electric. The other $25,000 is what you're paying to be a leading adopter.
I drive a 2015 Kia Soul+. After discount, it was $18,000. As a car, it absolutely destroys the Bolt. If you're buying a Bolt for any reason other than being an EV true believer, you need to reassess.
That's totally not a slam of the Bolt. It's a great and necessary step on the road to affordable EVs. But pretending it's something its not is a thinking error. It's a cheapo subcompact economy car with an extra $25,000 tacked on because it's got low-volume, high-cost electric bits. It is what it is. I still might buy one.
Having said that - cars aren't always economic decisions. They're emotional decisions. If you love your Bolt, then you made an awesome purchase/lease and you should be happy. And the rest of us should thank you for pushing the EV cart forward a bit.
I drive a 2015 Kia Soul+. After discount, it was $18,000. As a car, it absolutely destroys the Bolt. If you're buying a Bolt for any reason other than being an EV true believer, you need to reassess.
That's totally not a slam of the Bolt. It's a great and necessary step on the road to affordable EVs. But pretending it's something its not is a thinking error. It's a cheapo subcompact economy car with an extra $25,000 tacked on because it's got low-volume, high-cost electric bits. It is what it is. I still might buy one.
Having said that - cars aren't always economic decisions. They're emotional decisions. If you love your Bolt, then you made an awesome purchase/lease and you should be happy. And the rest of us should thank you for pushing the EV cart forward a bit.
ScooterCT said:
Not sure why you think a Bolt has to cost $40,000. MSRP minus the federal rebate (there may be state and utility rebates) is $29,995 to $36,405. A loaded up one plus tax and license would just reach $40,000. It does appear from inventory searches that the most common configurations now are either LT with no options ($37,495, $29,995 after federal rebate) and Premier with all options except extra cost color ($43,510, $36,010 after federal rebate).
Using a Honda Fit EX (automatic, cloth seats) car as the somewhat similar non-electric vehicle at around $18,000, the price premium seen by the buyer of a Bolt LT for being long range electric is more like $12,000 (after federal rebate) instead of $25,000.
I don't agree that the Bolt is a $15,000 car. A $15,000 car tends to be a lot more bare bones. I'd put it more in the range of a $20,000-$25,000 car (based on trim level). That means after Federal and CA rebates you're only paying maybe $5000-6000 over an equivalent gas car.
FWIW and not to gainsay what others are writing, but to add one more experience to the thread:
I've had a Premier Bolt for a week. I've driven it for about 13 hours. I'm 66, 6' 1", weigh 175, have a 36" waist and like rocky road ice cream.
I notice nothing problematic about the bolsters. When I first got the car I noticed a bump from the seat pressing into my lower back. It was somewhat problematic but I didn't get a backache. Now, I hardly notice it at all. I think mostly that change has come because the seat is adjusting to me - that bump isn't there as much. I imagine I'm also more accustomed to the seat.
I've had a Premier Bolt for a week. I've driven it for about 13 hours. I'm 66, 6' 1", weigh 175, have a 36" waist and like rocky road ice cream.
I notice nothing problematic about the bolsters. When I first got the car I noticed a bump from the seat pressing into my lower back. It was somewhat problematic but I didn't get a backache. Now, I hardly notice it at all. I think mostly that change has come because the seat is adjusting to me - that bump isn't there as much. I imagine I'm also more accustomed to the seat.
JupiterMoon
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ScooterCT said:
A Kia Soul destroys the Bolt as a car??? Based on what? The Kia Soul is a cheap vehicle and looks cheap inside and out. The Bolt is no Rolls Royce and GM could have probably done a nicer job inside and out overall and kept the price the same or close but it's no worse than a Kia Soul.
Frankly all this complaining about seats is ridiculous. The seats are no worse or better than any other vehicle below or above its price range that are worth mentioning as differences. Talk about first world problems.
Sorry. They are. With LT it was THE FIRST thing I noticed when I sat down in LT. I told the dealer, "Dick? (that's his real name) What the hell is sticking out on the side here?" Dick had no idea, of course.JupiterMoon said:
Admittedly, the leather is much better and probably no problem for most of the slim and trim crowd. Fatter people? Now that could be a deal-breaker. Literally. No big butts need apply. They won't fit.
Do yourself a favor and take someone with a fairly oversized derriere to Chevy dealer and have them sit down in both LT and Premiere. See what they say.
Hey, maybe they will drive off in one and I'll eat my hat.
JupiterMoon
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iletric said:
But this is nothing new. Overweight people have issues with a lot of other things as well because you cannot design a seat that can fit everyone. Don't they have issues in aircraft seats as well? I mean come on...there comes a point where someone who is out of shape should start taking care of themselves unless they....of course...are unable or have a dilapitating issue.
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