EVgo DC chargers were horrible up until the beginning of 2018. They're still not perfect, but improvement is being made.

SparkE said:

3 DCFC charges of 30 mins using credit card (no sub) : ~60 kWh is ~$30 (3x$10)

3 charges of 30 mins on "Flex" plan (no monthly subscription price, but signed up) : ~60 kWh is ~$33 (3x$5 + 3x$6).

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It's pretty messed up that it actually costs more with a free sub than it does without it. What is up with that?

SeanNelson said:

Pigwich said:

...the half hour policy sure does keep the lines at the charger short...

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The better way to keep the lines short is to have more chargers at each location.

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I don't know why they don't have more either. You'd think of they are taking the trouble to run the lines that it would be worth putting in at least four chargers. Hopefully if more EVs sell they'll be quick expand the existing locations if there's demand.

SparkE said:

No apologies necessary, IMO. EVgo *are* fuckers - total, complete fuckers.

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LOL!!! Speak freely bro, tell us what's on your mind!! LOL...

I for one respect their 30 minute limit. There is generally only 1 or 2 DCFC's per location so therefore it is by design "shared". Having had two Leafs, there were many times I had to wait 20-30 minutes for another Leaf or I3 to complete. I used these only out of necessity on a 90-100 mile drive. It would really suck to have to wait 1 1/2 hours for someone to fill their Bolt. (as I recall the free no-charge-2charge plan required a waiting period of 1 hour before another "free" charge could be attempted.)

After having the Bolt for 1 month now and making the same 100 mile drive, I find the 30 minute charge more than adequate. As much as I love the Bolt, it's no Tesla! However, even with the Bolt's fantastic range, the current charging infrastructure does not support "Tesla like" charging and was not designed to. I took this under consideration at the time of my Bolt lease having known full well of EVgo's offerings. By the way, if you complete a charge session and your vehicle selfishly ties up the charger, you should be charged!

Let's face it, Tesla did it right. Their many locations have multiple stalls. Some with 10 or 12.

Overall I believe EVgo has done a good job, at least at which I'm famaliar with (Southern California) They continue a logical build out AND they maintain their locations! (can anyone say Blink)

I would image if EVgo sees the demand for 1 1/2 hour long charging they will address it by installing more chargers and creating some kind of long session option. I would expect them to be profitable on that venture, as they should.

If any company is to blame it's GM not EVgo. They sit on their hands when it comes to the infrastructure side.

Thinking that an auto company should build 'generic' EV charging spots (that any car could use) is ridiculous. Should Boeing build airports? Chrysler build gas stations? Monsanto open their chain of grocery stores?

Of course not.

Nice try but I said nothing about GM building out anything.

They might wanna support their vehicles DCFC capability by partnering with EVgo by creating their own Bolt program with an appropiate charging plan. I believe most all of the other manufactures do something to the effect.

One ironic thing is with the current charging infrastructure, a car like the Leaf or Ioniq is probably just about as viable for long trips as the Bolt. You have to stop more times potentially, but only for the 30 minute charge. You might even charge faster since you're always coming from a low level. You don't have as much range in reserve but as long as you can reach another charger you're golden.

I agree that their whole plan is off. They are way too expensive and their 30 minute charge time sucks for the quick chargers. And on level 2 especially for vehicles that have slower onboard chargers, we get penalized even more... They are just using lame excuses for price gouging etc. For vehicles with 60ish miles of freeway range, you can be depleted in a half hour then have to sit at the next station a half hour before hooking up again because of the 1 hour between charge rule. Stupid, just stupid!

I am not going to beat up on EVgo. They have this policy because all the freegans that use their chargers. I used one of their stations in Long Beach more out of curiosity last weekend. It worked well and with two stalls was occupied by LEAFs both times I tested it out for 30 minutes.

The business model for charging stations is tenuous at best given the cost of running the infrastructure and maintaining the stations. That EVgo is deploying and trying to be profitable is a good thing. More competition will force all suppliers to have a better model. Until we have real competition, I will give everyone trying a pass.

That said, I have L2 at home and work and almost never would need to use public charging.

reeler said:

I am not going to beat up on EVgo. They have this policy because all the freegans that use their chargers. I used one of their stations in Long Beach more out of curiosity last weekend. It worked well and with two stalls was occupied by LEAFs both times I tested it out for 30 minutes.

The business model for charging stations is tenuous at best given the cost of running the infrastructure and maintaining the stations. That EVgo is deploying and trying to be profitable is a good thing. More competition will force all suppliers to have a better model. Until we have real competition, I will give everyone trying a pass.

That said, I have L2 at home and work and almost never would need to use public charging.

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As a driver of a Spark EV with an On-The-Go EVgo membership for the last two years, I do not have any squawks about EVgo. I do, however, have serious concerns about those inconsiderate individuals who think because they have a hybrid, PHEV or BEV they can use the DCFC charger parking spaces to park in even if they are not charging. I have seen this way too many times.

I can charge my Spark EV to 85% at an EVgo DCFC in under 20 minutes and be gone; usually it is less time. I remember waiting in lines at gasoline stations in 1973 during the gasoline shortage. I didn't like it then and I do not want to wait 90 minutes now for a Bolt driver to squeeze every electron back into his battery. The solution is easy. We need DCFC stations, like gasoline stations, that have multiple DCFC chargers (pumps) so you can drive up and fill up on electrons and be on your way. Fortunately, a few locations have installed 4 EVgo DCFC chargers. We need more and, as the number of BEVs on the road increases, we need many more DCFC charging "stations" with 8 or 10 DCFC chargers. Picture a large filling station where the pumps are all DCFC chargers. I think it will happen eventually but, until then, we BEV drivers need to learn to work together to make driving an EV great for all.

Meanwhile, I will continue to use my L2 EVSE to fulfill most of my charging needs and only use the DCFC locations when I venture outside of my comfortable roundtrip range as my closest DCFC is 11 miles away.

SparkEVPilot said:

reeler said:

I am not going to beat up on EVgo. They have this policy because all the freegans that use their chargers. I used one of their stations in Long Beach more out of curiosity last weekend. It worked well and with two stalls was occupied by LEAFs both times I tested it out for 30 minutes.

The business model for charging stations is tenuous at best given the cost of running the infrastructure and maintaining the stations. That EVgo is deploying and trying to be profitable is a good thing. More competition will force all suppliers to have a better model. Until we have real competition, I will give everyone trying a pass.

That said, I have L2 at home and work and almost never would need to use public charging.

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As a driver of a Spark EV with an On-The-Go EVgo membership for the last two years, I do not have any squawks about EVgo. I do, however, have serious concerns about those inconsiderate individuals who think because they have a hybrid, PHEV or BEV they can use the DCFC charger parking spaces to park in even if they are not charging. I have seen this way too many times.

I can charge my Spark EV to 85% at an EVgo DCFC in under 20 minutes and be gone; usually it is less time. I remember waiting in lines at gasoline stations in 1973 during the gasoline shortage. I didn't like it then and I do not want to wait 90 minutes now for a Bolt driver to squeeze every electron back into his battery. The solution is easy. We need DCFC stations, like gasoline stations, that have multiple DCFC chargers (pumps) so you can drive up and fill up on electrons and be on your way. Fortunately, a few locations have installed 4 EVgo DCFC chargers. We need more and, as the number of BEVs on the road increases, we need many more DCFC charging "stations" with 8 or 10 DCFC chargers. Picture a large filling station where the pumps are all DCFC chargers. I think it will happen eventually but, until then, we BEV drivers need to learn to work together to make driving an EV great for all.

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Actually, you do have a squawk - you just don't realize it. Skipping the entire "morons who park in charging spaces without charging" situation (which has nothing to do with vendors), you have a problem with the EVgo pricing structure, because it encourages people to get as many electrons 'squeezed in' as possible. If EVgo charged differently, without an elevated connection fee and with increasing cost the longer a car is plugged in - there wouldn't be very many "Bolt driver ... squeez[ing] every electron into his battery". But the current system encourages people to charge until the machine turns off (*unless* one has the "On-The-Go" membership, as you do, without a connection fee - one simply pays for the electricity consumed).

Many ChargePoint DCFCs have a 'parking fee' that kicks in after a certain amount of time (20, 30, 45, or 60 minutes) and the fee adds a considerable amount to charging - sometimes doubling it. Thus, people charge until they have enough electrons to get where they are going, OR until the parking fee kicks in. I often see EV drivers unplug and leave within a minute of another EV arriving behind them at ChargePoint units - there is no negative ('not maximizing connection fee') for the user to 'squeeze in every electron'. I *rarely* see that at EVgo spots (which, honestly, I mostly see at supermarkets since that is where many are in my neck of the woods).

OK let's be honest here, a big part of this complaint we have about EVgo is actually about the Bolt and it's VERY early charge rate taper. If it could run 80KW all the way up to 80%, this point would be mostly moot, but that's not the case. The real issue here is that EVgo isn't charging for the energy consumed, like at a gas pump. There are too many variables, and right now with session based pricing, it seems that charging a Bolt at an EVgo station is a gamble as to whether you'll get your money's worth, and the odds are mostly against you.

I have to say, when people park their C-max or Prius at a DC station, it's some BS. Unfortunately, session fees and cut-offs do nothing to prevent that. I don't condone bad behavior, but a spilled root beer sends a clear message.

As for a Bolt tying up stations for over an hour, that's completely true, to get a full-ish charge anyway, BUT for the next two or three stations, the cars with the smaller packs won't have to contend with said Bolt drivers, as they'll be zooming past. At the end of the day, it's all even. Roughly speaking, everybody spends the same amount of time on a charger for the miles driven. This is cold comfort to somebody stuck last in line somewhere (never actually seen more than 1 car in line at a DC station) but it's pretty much true. As others have pointed out, the solution is to just put in more chargers, period, and not all of them need to be massive 50, 80, or one of these insane "power-cube" things with 400KW. Maybe putting up a mess of the piddly (ha) little 24KW units would be better and be an easier pill to swallow financially, but would make more sense at shopping centers where people typically spend more time than a half hour, and save the big units for when people are legitimately in a hurry. Because lets face it, it's wishful thinking that you'll be able to get seated, order, and eat that sandwich in 30 minutes.

I'm glad we're having this discussion. If there's one thing we can take away from this, it's that there are many different ways to price fast charging, and EVgo's session based system is NOT POPULAR.

Pigwich said:

OK let's be honest here, a big part of this complaint we have about EVgo is actually about the Bolt and it's VERY early charge rate taper. If it could run 80KW all the way up to 80%, this point would be mostly moot, but that's not the case. The real issue here is that EVgo isn't charging for the energy consumed, like at a gas pump. There are too many variables, and right now with session based pricing, it seems that charging a Bolt at an EVgo station is a gamble as to whether you'll get your money's worth, and the odds are mostly against you.

I have to say, when people park their C-max or Prius at a DC station, it's some BS. Unfortunately, session fees and cut-offs do nothing to prevent that. I don't condone bad behavior, but a spilled root beer sends a clear message.

As for a Bolt tying up stations for over an hour, that's completely true, to get a full-ish charge anyway, BUT for the next two or three stations, the cars with the smaller packs won't have to contend with said Bolt drivers, as they'll be zooming past. At the end of the day, it's all even. Roughly speaking, everybody spends the same amount of time on a charger for the miles driven. This is cold comfort to somebody stuck last in line somewhere (never actually seen more than 1 car in line at a DC station) but it's pretty much true. As others have pointed out, the solution is to just put in more chargers, period, and not all of them need to be massive 50, 80, or one of these insane "power-cube" things with 400KW. Maybe putting up a mess of the piddly (ha) little 24KW units would be better and be an easier pill to swallow financially, but would make more sense at shopping centers where people typically spend more time than a half hour, and save the big units for when people are legitimately in a hurry. Because lets face it, it's wishful thinking that you'll be able to get seated, order, and eat that sandwich in 30 minutes.

I'm glad we're having this discussion. If there's one thing we can take away from this, it's that there are many different ways to price fast charging, and EVgo's session based system is NOT POPULAR.

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All good comments and I do prefer ChargePoint's way of charging for power even with their slow 24 kWh DCFC chargers. EVgo's DCFC chargers are faster at 40 kWh which shortens my charging time but I pay a $14.95 per month membership fee plus my charging fees which usually run $0.15 per kWh. I would make more use of ChargePoint DCFC locations if they were in my area. Unfortunately, they are not.

SparkEVPilot said:

All good comments and I do prefer ChargePoint's way of charging for power even with their slow 24 kWh DCFC chargers. EVgo's DCFC chargers are faster at 40 kWh which shortens my charging time but I pay a $14.95 per month membership fee plus my charging fees which usually run $0.15 per kWh. I would make more use of ChargePoint DCFC locations if they were in my area. Unfortunately, they are not.

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To be clear : *ChargePoint* doesn't set prices. ChargePoint sells, installs, and administers charging stations - the entity who paid CP for the unit is the one that sets prices. I have seen per kWh, per hour, and fee+kWh charging on the ChargePoint network.

SparkE said:

SparkEVPilot said:

All good comments and I do prefer ChargePoint's way of charging for power even with their slow 24 kWh DCFC chargers. EVgo's DCFC chargers are faster at 40 kWh which shortens my charging time but I pay a $14.95 per month membership fee plus my charging fees which usually run $0.15 per kWh. I would make more use of ChargePoint DCFC locations if they were in my area. Unfortunately, they are not.

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To be clear : *ChargePoint* doesn't set prices. ChargePoint sells, installs, and administers charging stations - the entity who paid CP for the unit is the one that sets prices. I have seen per kWh, per hour, and fee+kWh charging on the ChargePoint network.

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Yep! At the ChargePoint quick charger located in the parking garage at Heavenly Village in South Lake Tahoe, you get to pay $3.75 per hour for garage parking, $0.18 per kWh and, after 60 minutes of charging, an additional $0.05 per minute EV parking charge.

I think that Bolt EV owners/lessees need to be educated about how much their time is worth while waiting for that last "slow" 20% to "top off" vs. the time it would take to just stop again somewhere down the road and recharge when the charge rate would be much faster.

I need a 100% charge to feel comfortable to drive to Northern California from my home in Valley Village (North Hollywood) via Interstate 5 to Hiway 46 to US 101 in Paso Robles to the DC Fast Charger at the Granary Building (196 miles). In theory, I can make it all the way up to the DC Fast Charger in King City, but I have not tried it yet.

On the return trip, it is not worth my time to sit in Paso Robles to get much past the 80% charge on the Chargepoint to top off to 100%.

I am happy to stop at the DC Fast Charger in Newhall Ranch just off Interstate 5 and take a small break, when the Mileage Remaining says 30 miles. The EVGo gives me another top off taking 30 minutes and about 60-90 miles more capacity when I am only about 30 miles from home.

I need to stretch my legs at this point anyway!

Ok, I just used an EvGo DCFC charger for the 1st time today. Just wanted to do a test charge to see how fast it would charge and how much it would cost.

The rate for the charger at the location I used was supposedly a flat $9.95 but when the charger initiated the session it quoted a rate of $5.95 plus 20 cents/min.

I knew this was expensive but went ahead anyway because it was going to be a 1x test and I only planned to use the charger for 30 mins which should cost $11.95. Wanted to see how much range I could get for that much time/cost.

Anyway, the Bolt was down to 134 miles (estimated mid-range) left. The charger rated it at 62% full at the start and the Bolt estimated that it would take just about 30 mins to get it to 80%.

When the session began, the charger showed an initial rate of charge at 378VDC @ 99A when the car was at 62% and later at 76% the rate of charge changed slightly to 387VDC @ 64A.

At the end of 30 mins, I stopped the charge. The Bolt said it was 80% charged and posted an revised estimated mid-range of 184 miles. So, it cost me $11.95 for just 50 miles of additional range.

Not sure how that works out in EPA miles per gallon but just based on the car it replaced -- a gas guzzling FJ Cruiser that never got more than 12 miles to the gallon -- that would work out to about 4 gallons of gas at $2.65/gallon or $10.60 for the FJ, which means that it would have been cheaper to fill up the FJ than the Bolt for the same mileage. No savings there.

Apart from that, I never got a text (as promised) showing the cost of the charging session from EvGo. I called EVGo's "customer service" to see if they could tell me how much I was going to be charged but they couldn't "help" me. Will just have to see what the charge is on my credit card account tomorrow online and complain if it's more than expected.

All in all, I'm not too impressed w/the experience of using DCFC. It's very expensive and I'd only use it again if I absolutely had to do so. Much better to just charge at home and stay w/in the limits of the car's range w/o the need to "top off" while on the road.

Lesson learned.

OBTW, there was NO automatic cutoff at 30 mins during my charging session which went a little over that. When I pushed the "stop" button, the charger estimated that it would still take 35 mins to fully charge the Bolt and there was no indication that the charger was going to turn itself off.

sgt1372 said:

All in all, I'm not too impressed w/the experience of using DCFC. It's very expensive and I'd only use it again if I absolutely had to do so. Much better to just charge at home and stay w/in the limits of the car's range w/o the need to "top off" while on the road.

Lesson learned.

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That's my view also. I'm "iffy" on even getting the DCFC option on my soon-to-be Bolt.

The greater the battery capacity, the less the need for DCFC. Suppose you had a 400 mile, 100 kWh car. Except for long distance travel, there would be essentially no need for DCFC. What would be needed was a way to charge at home overnight. Level 2, 12 kW would fill this car overnight. Tesla has it right with their 48 and 72 Ampere home chargers.

Again, except for long range travel, for which the Bolt is NOT ideally suited, DCFC is, in my opinion, best intended for a quick squirt of juice to make it home. In this regard, I actually like the EVGO system that moves people through the charger quickly.

For example suppose I want to go to Santa Barbara for the weekend. That's a 200 mile round trip plus whatever local driving I might do. It's a stretch in a Bolt

But if anywhere along the way I can plug in for a half hour and add 50-80 miles of range, I'm in great shape.

I think that's the real benefit of DCFC and why I think moving people quickly though with half hour limits is fine

What is the difference between DCFC and CCS/SAE??