winterescape
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:35 pm
Location: Upstate, NY

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Tarrngtn wrote:We live in Albuquerque. We have net metering with PNM, so exact charges are hard to figure. If we use more kWh than our solar panels generate they charge us at one rate. If we generate more than we use we get a refund at a lower rate. For the last three years we have consistently generated more than we consume. PNM has paid us about $100 each year. We bought the Bolt in mid October. At that point we had an unpaid credit with PNM. We used that up and had to pay PNM about $25 in December and January. Five additional solar panels were installed at the end of January. For February we had a 4 cent credit with PNM. So our Bolt is now running on solar power. We must be pretty close to the zero balance that is most desirable. Having more generating capacity than one needs is not good because they pay at a lower rate. The sun is low in February and it was a cold and relatively cloudy month. So we expect to continue to have small credits from PNM in the future. We drive the bolt 600-800 miles a month and do all charging at home. May not be economic, but it feels good.


That is very admirable and impressive, thanks for sharing...

gpsman
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:45 pm

CA has expensive electricty rates, but probably the best most extensive public charging infrastucture.

Some public charging is free.
Half of it is cheaper than charging at home.

I’ve gone 13 months and 16,000 miles without charging at home. I have not purchased any EVSE. I only use the charge cord that came with the car at work, or find free/inexpensive public charging.

I’ve spent about $200 on public charging for those 16,000 miles. Call it 1.2 cents per mile. It is so low I quit keeping track of those costs not tracked in my Chargepoint app.

Tttait
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:59 pm

So you're the guy who's always sitting in his car charging free at Whole Foods!

I'm actually in the opposite position. I have Solar at home and built in a little bit of excess when we installed it to cover my future electric car. I charge at home 99% of the time, and its free, my electric bill is still basically zero.

Yes, I had to buy the solar panels, but I worked out the math on that when I bought them, and they will pay themselves off in 5.5 years without even factoring in the gasoline savings on the bolt. I'm doing 25000 miles a year in the Bolt with virtually no additional out of pocket expenses, no gas, no maintenance so far except tire rotation. Someday I will need wiper blades. According to the IRS, at $.50 a mile they allow for vehicle operating expenses, if it was a business car I'd be saving $12,500 a year. Figure in the net cost of the Bolt, and at that rate it pays for itself well before the warranty runs out.

BarfOMatic
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:03 am

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:50 am

Tttait wrote:So you're the guy who's always sitting in his car charging free at Whole Foods!

I'm actually in the opposite position. I have Solar at home and built in a little bit of excess when we installed it to cover my future electric car. I charge at home 99% of the time, and its free, my electric bill is still basically zero.


I beg to differ - it is pre-paid, not free. (unless the materials, install and inspection(s) were free - then it's free). You just paid up front - the total cost per kWh will continue going down the longer you use it, but you did pay for it.

Tttait
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:46 pm

<below is not meant as an argument, just an illustration of different ways of looking at the same numbers>

That's also correct, but due to the sequence of events and the decision making process we went through, we decided to invest in the Solar panels understanding they would provide an 18% return on investment per year. Within those metrics I had enough capacity built in to run a future electric car up to about 30k miles per year. The money got spent, the panels got installed, and they are in fact paying me back at that rate of return.

After that I actually bought the car, but the money had already been spent/invested. There was no way to get that money back at that point. I risked that I would actually follow through on buying the car and invested extra money in that step before I knew if I would like or actually purchase the car.

When considering my Bolt purchase then, part of the incentive to purchase was that the electrical costs had been pre invested, and I'd then be leaving money on the table if I didn't take advantage of it.

It's all the same events, and ultimately the math pencils out to the same cash balances at the end of each ear, but I prefer to organize the costs and explain the process based on the decisions/timeline, not the net at the end of the year.

BillHowland
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:00 pm

BoltMaybe wrote:When calculating EV electricity costs there are a couple of important things to note:

1. The kW consumption displayed in the car is not the same as what you pumped into the car. This is b/c of AC to DC conversion and heat losses pumping electrons into the battery. True kWh charging consumption is best determined using an actual meter reading. When I installed my EVSE, I put a meter behind it for just this reason.
2. Energy cost is not the $/kWh on your bill. Every utility adds on taxes and connection charges which, depending on how much electricity you consume, can add anywhere from 2-5cents per kWh. For your actual cost per kWh you should divide your monthly bill total by your kWh used.

Using these two important factors (meter reading and actual $/kWh) I get the true monthly usage cost of my EV which is usually higher than what I see on most forums, but still around 30-40% less than my Prius 7yrs ago. Because EVs have nearly zero maintenance, total cost of ownership (TCO) becomes the differentiator. Even though I rarely replaced the brakepads in my Prius (regen save the brakes), oil changes and other ICE maintenance added up quickly. Both my LEAF and Mercedes killed my Prius on TCO. But gas was also more expensive then, so I'm not sure where things fall now.

I just got my Bolt yesterday so I'll have some numbers for this thread next month.


Well GETOFFYOURGAS has the same utility I do (National Grid), but pays more than I do since he has opted for wind mill powered electricity. At my end of NY State, I pay a marginal cost of 10 cents/kwh (including all delivery, fees, and taxes), or should I say that is what I WOULD pay since I make more solar juice than I use. But I just bought a new hot tub that I won't convert to GAS heat for the 2 year warranty period so this cycle I expect to actually have to buy a bit of utility electricity.

BUT GOYG has a better deal at work - something like $12 / month UNLIMITED charging - so for that a BOLT ev is ideal, especially if you can use up all the juice before going to work the next day.

BillHowland
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: Amazing low cost to run an EV

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:08 pm

winterescape wrote:
iletric wrote:I guess Bay Area Californians get price-gouged on their utilities as compared to NY.


And depending where you live in upstate it can get even cheaper. We benefit from municipal power and long term contracts with hydroelectric suppliers, think Niagara Falls. We currently pay $4.53 /month connection fee and $0.04 per KWh with no distribution charges. Any power consumed in excess of 1,000 kWh’s in a winter month is billed at $0.06 per KWh.

http://www.village.fairport.ny.us/uploa ... _final.pdf

"The Village owns and operates Fairport Electric, one of the 47 municipally owned power companies in New York. More than 14,000 customers in the Village and Perinton receive considerably less expensive power than other areas - about 1/3 the rate charged by nearby utilities. " CONSUMER OWNED AND MUNICIPALLY OPERATED

Bitter cold, it is only 5Deg F here today, lots of snow from lake Ontario, but cheep electricity...


OH MAN you are getting PASNY POWER (Power Authority of the State of NY). In Lewiston, where the big ROBERT MOSES plant is (Niagara Falls), they have National Grid as the utility and pay 10 cents/kwh plus $18 billing (17 + 1 tax). You pay 4 cents (or 6 if you are bad)/kwh, and $4.50 billing. No wonder everyone in Fairport has electric heat!

At least its not DOWNSTATE (NY) Westchester county, where Consolidated Edison customers pay about 32 cents/ kwh 24/7/365, or for those people who were enticed to go Time-of-use, they may charge their cars for only 14 cents/kwh past midnight, but then have to run the air conditioner during SUPER ON-Peak rates of OVER $1 per kwh during the summertime.

There was a Volt owner who used to comment on Inside EVS that said, living where he did, it was much cheaper to let the battery go dead and run on gasoline. Why people down there tolerate the confiscatory rates is beyond me, although the only justification for it is they have a pumped Hydro storage plant (that stores the water during off hours using electricity made by burning #6 FUEL OIL). Now that Crude is $75 a bbl now, expect CON ED to raise their rates again.

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