BillM
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:14 pm

On the pesedrian warning system, the National Highway Transportstion Safety Administration has 157 pages of sleep inducing text on the matter: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.g ... ements.pdf

Out of curiosity, I looked up the statistics on car - pedestrian collisions. In 1999, NHTSA reported 6,000 collisions in the US: https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/res ... 09012.html. EVs currently make up about 1% of cars on the road in the US, so there are probably on the order of 60 pedestrian entanglements with EVs in a given year. National Public Radio reported on car - pedestrian accidents, and stated there is about a 10% chance of the pedestrian being killed in collisions less than 20 MPH: https://www.npr.org/2017/03/30/52208550 ... ian-deaths

Bicyclists are also potential targets of quiet EV provoked crashes. Numbers are for vehicle crashes in general are available here: https://www.npr.org/2017/03/30/52208550 ... ian-deaths

If EVs and ICEs were equally dangerous to pedestrians, then about five people a year in the US would be killed by EVs. NHTSA’s report above claims a quiet EV is 1.18 times as dangerous to pedestrians and 1.5 times as dangerous to bicyclists. That suggests PWS will save about one to two people per year on average in the US.

It seems like there are probably more effective and less expensive ways to improve safety than PWS: for example education, or mobile phones that detect vehicles (not just EVs) approaching, then generate an alert. Of course if you are the person PWS saves, then cost is no object.

BarfOMatic
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:03 am

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:18 pm

That's a little like saying "I've never had an accident, so I don't want to pay the extra cost of having seatbelts or airbags in my car".

"Less expensive ways"? It's software, running thru the same speaker as the horn, isn't it? Or is it a $1.25 part?

SeanNelson
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:43 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:19 am

BillM wrote:If EVs and ICEs were equally dangerous to pedestrians, then about five people a year in the US would be killed by EVs. NHTSA’s report above claims a quiet EV is 1.18 times as dangerous to pedestrians and 1.5 times as dangerous to bicyclists. That suggests PWS will save about one to two people per year on average in the US.

It seems likely to me that pedestrian inattention is a factor in most pedestrian deaths. Even deaths where the vehicle driver is solely to blame, pedestrian vigilance would, I suspect, have saved many or perhaps even most of them. But with so many pedestrians distracted by their smart phones or wearing earbuds, I think it's a bit of a stretch to simply extrapolate the numbers to assume that a sound warning system would have made a difference. The kind of low, electronic sound emitted by the warning system is not going to do much to alert a pedestrian immersed in their phone.

I'm not saying it won't save some lives, but I sure don't think it's going to be a panacea.

SparkE
Moderator
Posts: 995
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:53 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:24 am

SeanNelson wrote:
BillM wrote:If EVs and ICEs were equally dangerous to pedestrians, then about five people a year in the US would be killed by EVs. NHTSA’s report above claims a quiet EV is 1.18 times as dangerous to pedestrians and 1.5 times as dangerous to bicyclists. That suggests PWS will save about one to two people per year on average in the US.

It seems likely to me that pedestrian inattention is a factor in most pedestrian deaths. Even deaths where the vehicle driver is solely to blame, pedestrian vigilance would, I suspect, have saved many or perhaps even most of them. But with so many pedestrians distracted by their smart phones or wearing earbuds, I think it's a bit of a stretch to simply extrapolate the numbers to assume that a sound warning system would have made a difference. The kind of low, electronic sound emitted by the warning system is not going to do much to alert a pedestrian immersed in their phone.

I'm not saying it won't save some lives, but I sure don't think it's going to be a panacea.



Well, to blatantly steal an expression from a work of Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle : "Think of it as Evolution in Action".

ai4px
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:46 pm

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:48 pm

SpaceMan wrote:Last night I started using the auto-lock feature, so here's to hoping it will stop all the honking.

There's an autolock feature? Where do I set that up?

SparkE
Moderator
Posts: 995
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:53 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:38 pm

ai4px wrote:
SpaceMan wrote:Last night I started using the auto-lock feature, so here's to hoping it will stop all the honking.

There's an autolock feature? Where do I set that up?


Page 42 (Delayed Locking) and Page 144 (Vehicle Personalization / Power Door Locks : Delayed Door Lock )

Page 35 (Passive Locking) and Page 145 (Vehicle Personalization / Power Door Locks : Passive Door Lock )

BillM
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:34 am

BarfOMatic wrote:That's a little like saying "I've never had an accident, so I don't want to pay the extra cost of having seatbelts or airbags in my car".

"Less expensive ways"? It's software, running thru the same speaker as the horn, isn't it? Or is it a $1.25 part?


Page 11 of latest NPRM lists the estimated average cost per vehicle around $70 to $80 depending on production volume. The PWS electronics are actually non trivial and it does not use the buzzer for the horn. A weather proof loudspeaker is required to meet the sonic requirements and a microprocessor is needed to generate the complex waveform that varies with vehicle velocity.

NPRM document: https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulem ... 142016.pdf

Since all cars will be required to have rear view safety cameras, I would propose image processing electronics to analyze presence of pedestrians in the blind spot could ultimately be made less expensive because they will be deployed in ICE and EV cars alike. I have seen China, Inc. dash cams around $50 that have video approach detection. I feel confident similar technology could be deployed into the mandated camera for less cost.

I would also recommend putting money into educating pedestrians to not walk distracted. Mobile phones could also be outfitted with software that alerts pedestrians when they are about to,walk into a traffic area. The mobile phone fix is still a future thing, as it needs high precision GPS - but that is under developemnt for self driving cars. Mobile phones have an issue where they do not have access to GPS signals. For such areas as indoor parking, low power ultrasonic or RF transducers could signal phones. For that matter, cars could also be outfitted for just a few Dollars.

BarfOMatic
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:03 am

Re: Bolt keeps honking at me...

Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:28 am

BillM wrote:
BarfOMatic wrote:That's a little like saying "I've never had an accident, so I don't want to pay the extra cost of having seatbelts or airbags in my car".

"Less expensive ways"? It's software, running thru the same speaker as the horn, isn't it? Or is it a $1.25 part?


Page 11 of latest NPRM lists the estimated average cost per vehicle around $70 to $80 depending on production volume. The PWS electronics are actually non trivial and it does not use the buzzer for the horn. A weather proof loudspeaker is required to meet the sonic requirements and a microprocessor is needed to generate the complex waveform that varies with vehicle velocity.


Geez, who is making that, NASA? Are they using $900 hammers to make them?

I could suss out a series of parts for less than $20, easy, buying off the shelf at an electronics store. (Well, except for "weather proof loudspeaker" - I'd install a second sound for PWS - *and* I'd have a low-volume "hey - be careful - I'm right behind you" horn-type noise that I could set off in parking lots for those people listening to their phones/iPods.)

Return to “General / Main Chevy Bolt Owners Forum”