JimFallstonMd
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The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:37 pm

The numbers are in for Q4.


Bolt EV 6212 - 18,019 for 2018
Volt 5063 - 18,306 for 2018.
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theothertom
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:24 pm

Overall down from last year about 14% for Chevy, but up 78% overall for EV's

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-s ... 6kLtuYvfo0

tgreene
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:41 pm

theothertom wrote:Overall down from last year about 14% for Chevy, but up 78% overall for EV's

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-s ... 6kLtuYvfo0



I think that shows that GM is not as competitive in the EV marketplace as it was several years ago. It will be interesting to see what they do if/when they chose to compete. Hopefully they will introduce more compelling products at competitive prices. However they are now at a disadvantage in the US, having gone through their 200,000 vehicle quota for max tax credits. Regardless of that, they will need better products to compete in domestic or foreign markets given the superior small CUV offerings of Hyundai and Kia. It seems that GM also has a considerable handicap due to inadequate investments in battery technology at this time, and I think they squandered the early lead with the Volt (which I won) and Bolt.

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oilerlord
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:35 am

I've been away from the forum for a while. Thought I'd catch up, and see how everyone is enjoying their EV's.

Only 18,000 Bolts sold in 2018. That is so disappointing. I remember all the hope and promise of the Bolt being a "game changer" and Model 3 "killer". I also recall lofty yearly sales estimates such as 50K, 80K, and even higher numbers being tossed around,. Didn't happen.

Honestly, I don't get it. The Bolt is no Audi e-Tron SUV, but it doesn't go for 75 large either. I'm also a little surprised at the success of the Model 3 given that it's a "car" - which Ford has proven, quite clearly, that it's a form factor the general public doesn't much care to buy anymore.

So what gives? The Bolt is affordable (as EV's go), good packaging, has long range, and from what I've read so far - pretty much trouble free overall.

My B250e now has over 60K KM's on it (about 37K miles) and I'm starting to feel the effects of battery degradation - especially as it's been between -20C and -30C for the last two weeks. So cold that the car's range has been limited to about 70-80KM, pretty much relegating me to driving my wife's X3 quite often (and yeah, I know every range extending "tips" in the book).

But I digress. Without a doubt, a used Bolt EV will be my next EV. I figure I'm about 50% through the usable service life of my car, that is, before it;s short range pisses me off too much as each winter comes along. Anyway, just random musings; and I hope everyone has been enjoying driving their Bolt.

I'd be interested in getting some feedback for those that have driven their Bolt for 2+ years (Sean, Michael, ?), and if you still love your EV.
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cwerdna
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:47 am

I think part of the problem is the lack of marketing and lack of awareness of the heavy Bolt discounting in the US.

I only suddenly became interested and started digging around after someone on an EV (possibly Leaf) Facebook made me aware of the heavy discounting. Until about 2 weeks ago, a Leaf had been my primary car since end of July 2013. Plan to sell the Leaf soon when I find some time.

There's also the issue of some parts of the US (e.g. where there isn't a strong EV market) where the Chevy dealer won't even carry the Bolt. Example is a guy from Frackville, PA who posts on another forum I'm on. On his 1st visit (he posted about it in Oct 2017), the dealer said he was the first person to even ask about the car. He said he'd been going to the dealer for 32 years. I asked him about it again in Sep 2018 and he said there was no change at that dealer, still no Bolts.

In comparison, in the SF Bay Area, some dealers have just a few Bolts in stock (at least per dealer webpages): say under 20. Others, like the dealer I bought from allegedly have over 200 in stock.

You can bet that in non-strong EV markets, the odds of finding a salesperson who actually knows much about EVs and drives one daily are pretty low. Probably the rest will try to convince you to buy an non-EV since it's so much easier to sell those and not have to worry about all the considerations related to EVs (range, charging, L1 vs. L2 charging vs. DC charging, no "free" waste heat for the heater, etc.)

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oilerlord
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:23 pm

cwerdna wrote:I think part of the problem is the lack of marketing and lack of awareness of the heavy Bolt discounting in the US.



Perhaps. I think the bigger issue (if it is one for GM) is this: Does GM really want to sell 100,000 Bolts per year? I'm not particularly an Elon Musk fan, but he was in the ballpark on the Bolt's low sales numbers, and he mentioned GM wasn't interested in selling many of them. There just isn't enough profit margin in a Bolt EV for GM to get behind selling them in volume. Well all know that the majority of GM's marketing spend goes towards their bread & butter: Trucks & SUV's.

In 1-2 years, lease returns are going to start piling up on dealer lots. That's when the bottom falls out of the resale market, and when I start shopping around. 2021 is going to be the time to get an amazing deal on a used Bolt.
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cwerdna
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:49 am

oilerlord wrote:Well all know that the majority of GM's marketing spend goes towards their bread & butter: Trucks & SUV's.

In 1-2 years, lease returns are going to start piling up on dealer lots. That's when the bottom falls out of the resale market, and when I start shopping around. 2021 is going to be the time to get an amazing deal on a used Bolt.

Yep on the 1st part, and it becomes even more so with them axing so many cars for the US market.

As for the latter, yeah, possibly, unless residuals were low or GM gives big discounts off residuals near lease end, to encourage people to buy. Or, they end up shipping them to other countries (that's happened to some off-lease Leafs) to limit oversupply. But yeah, when I was shopping for a new '19 Bolt, I looked at the used market and there were no good deals at all. Others have said that they were only doing 3 year leases, which would explain why. Bolt began shipping Dec 2016.

SparkE
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:49 am

oilerlord wrote:In 1-2 years, lease returns are going to start piling up on dealer lots. That's when the bottom falls out of the resale market, and when I start shopping around. 2021 is going to be the time to get an amazing deal on a used Bolt.


Yup. Look at the prices of 4-year-old used LEAFs. The 2015 LEAF sold for around $33K and those cars are now easily found for under $11K on the used market - AT DEALERS (less from private party).

I imagine that a 2021 model-year "equivalent of a Bolt" (a 200+ mile EV from a competitor for around $37K MSRP) will be "better" than a 2017 Bolt: maybe "more features" (adaptive cruise for ex), or maybe faster charging (?90-120 kW?), or maybe "longer range" (?80-90 kWh battery?), or ... And, of course, it will be "new", with less than 20 miles on it.

The next gen of "cheaper/more energy dense" Li-Ion batteries is supposed to roll out this year & 2020, so maybe the 230-ish mile range EV will have an MSRP of $32K.

If one can buy a "somewhat-like-a-Bolt" NEW from the dealer for $35K - $7500 (fed tax credit) - $2500 (CA rebate) = $25K, then the prices of 3 or 4 year old Bolts should be well under $25K in Calif (?maybe $15K or $12K?).

It would be nice to have a friend that can get you into lease-return auctions, so that you can pick a car up for CHEAP, instead of paying dealer prices.

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oilerlord
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Re: The Q4 Numbers are in for GM.

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:29 pm

SparkE wrote:
It would be nice to have a friend that can get you into lease-return auctions, so that you can pick a car up for CHEAP, instead of paying dealer prices.


My Manheim account allows me to view auctions, but not participate because I haven't renewed the subscription in a long time. I'm not a dealer per se but as a hobby, I used import about 12-15 cars per year into Canada back in the day the USD/CAD was on par with each other, and flip them. Now, when I go shopping for a personal car, I just use Manheim as a tool so I know what the dealer paid for the car before making my own offer.

I haven't looked up lease Bolt lease returns (mostly, because there wasn't any) but there is a misconception that dealers have a high profit margin on every lease returned unit they sell. This is not the case.

The best advice I can give people is to check out the Carfax report...not ONLY for accidents, but to find out how long the dealer has had the car on their lot. In my experience, and generally speaking, for cars in the $25,000 - $30,000 price range - dealers typically try to make about $4,000 (more or less) above the cost of auction fees, and the logistics in getting the unit from the auction to their lot. There is also the cost in getting the car "frontline ready". This is dealer lingo for detailing the car, and replacing missing items like floor mats, owner's manuals, cigarette lighters, and yes, even EVSE's - all the stuff that gets stolen from the auction (that finds its way on Ebay).

That $4,000 profit withers away to $1000 or less after the car has been sitting on the lot for 90 days. Keep in mind, that dealerships rarely "own" cars on their lots - the banks do. Dealers are on the "juice", that is...pay interest on they money they buy their cars with. The longer a car sits on their lot, the more motivated they are to dump it & move onto the next deal. My Mercedes was on the lot for almost six months. They sold it to me at just above the auction price - but after fees, my guess is they probably lost about $500 on the car.
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (not-so-clean-diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0 "Beatrice"
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan
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