BarfOMatic
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:03 am
Location: Santa Clara, CA

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:06 pm

BoltEV wrote:Any ideas?


Yeah, buy a used Bolt. Hasn't somebody already talked about that? Isn't there a thread for that?

Oh, yeah, THIS one!

PackardV8
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:22 pm

Pigwich wrote:So in regards to "dickering" with the finance company, I'd like to know if anybody has historically had any success on this front. I asked when my Spark EV lease was up and they told me immediately that there was absolutely no negotiating whatsoever and that I could either turn it in or pay full asking price only. It's probably something to do with being able to write it off as a loss or not. The bank was Ally, who apparently are horrible, although my experience was neutral. This time it's GMAC financing. Also neutral, but I'm on autopay, so it had better be goddamn neutral.
The only explanation I've gotten is leases are written to be iron-clad-bullet-proof-court-tested. The lessor wants there to be no wiggle room for the lessee. To this end, the residual must be stated at time of signing and held firm. If the lessor were to renegotiate on the residual for one owner, they worry another lessee could then use that as an argument to negotiate some way out, "because you changed his residual, you can change my terms as well."

When BMW and Nissan wanted to get the first I3 and Leaf out into the marketplace, they lowballed the monthlies. This got BEVs out where others could see them on the road. But those low monthlies made the residuals so high, few owners saw fit to buy their car at the end. After being run through the wholesale auction and picked up by independent resellers, the same i3/Leaf were then on eBay for considerably less than than the residual. It happens with the Bolt as well. The leases in CA are sweetheart deals compared to what GM and the dealer were offering in WA.

Why buy at lease end (my residual is $25k+) when you can buy a brand new one for under $30k
Those here talking about sub-$30K Bolts aren't buying one in Spokane. The two dealers here are still holding close to MSRP.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

Pigwich
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:56 pm

I WENT TO THE DEALERSHIP TODAY!!

I skipped over the salesman and went straight to F & I and talked to the dude.

I'll have ended up paying $17,000 in "rent" , oh plus the $2500 I put down, and my residual is $25K, which adds up to MSRP, like magic! So where the fuck did my $7500 federal rebate go?!?!?!??!? Oh that's right, The lease company ate it, which is what they do. But what good did it do me? As it was explained to me, the leasing company uses it to prop up and protect and show a high residual value, and then they pick up the car and auction it off for a "loss"

But what did Bob in Finance at the dealership tell me this morning? This, in a nutshell...

That I'd be a complete dummy to even think about buying the car after my lease ended, unless I had somehow managed to put 75,000 miles on it in three years.

So there you have it. Straight from Bob. Bob who loves numbers and works at the dealership.
(´・(oo)・`)

BoltEV
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:39 pm

Does any Bolt EV leasee here have any experience with negotiating a year extension to their existing lease; whether GM Financial or otherwise?

For the right amount, I may just do that and wait out the 2020 release of the newer long-range EVs.

BarfOMatic
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:03 am
Location: Santa Clara, CA

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:57 pm

Pigwich wrote:I'll have ended up paying $17,000 in "rent" , oh plus the $2500 I put down, and my residual is $25K, which adds up to MSRP, like magic! So where the fuck did my $7500 federal rebate go?!?!?!??!? Oh that's right, The lease company ate it, which is what they do. .


That is the way leases ARE. "what you pay in interest" + "residual on car at end of lease" *must* equal what the car cost to buy. I mean, a lease is "paying the interest cost on the money I borrowed" which BY DEFINITION is the difference between "what car is worth at end of lease" and "what the new car cost when I got it" - that is just the way a lease WORKS.

The $7500 tax credit (it is NOT a rebate) is used to inflate the residual. You don't really think that the car is going to be worth $25K at end of lease, do you? If so, I have a bridge to sell you (it is a *beautiful* bridge, and it spans the Thames river, in London. I'll give you a great price!)

You should have bargained better when you got the car. You should have refused to pay MSRP - you should have insisted they lower the price of the car on the invoice for the lease you paid. Otherwise, you walk away. That's what I did - FOUR times. I finally got (almost) the exact car I wanted for the price I wanted (well, within about $500). It also cost me about 8 hours of my time - which was well worth it - I lowered the "buy" price by about $5000 by being a f*cking hard-nosed basturd and refusing to buy until I got the price I wanted.

PackardV8
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:13 pm

Don't believe everything one is told; that leases are not renegotiable. Our son is leasing an i3 and would buy it but the residual is too high. I asked the question on the BMW forum and got this reply.

At the end of my 2014 i3's 30 month lease last August, my residual was $29K. I found comparable used i3s for $19.8K. I told my dealer I wanted to keep my i3, but would not pay more than fair market. I went straight to the manager with my request. He said BMW USA owned the car, and asked that I give him a few minutes for him to talk to BMW USA. About 15 minutes later, he returned with a buyout agreement for $20K, which was $200 more than the number I went in with, but I had not shared that with him. He also had a decent loan rate to finance it if I wanted. I was so pleased that I didn't even bother to haggle for the $200.

It got even better, and stranger, however. I still had to let them do a lease return inspection on the car after they made the offer, but before they would close the deal (all on the same day). A few weeks after the deal was closed, I got a notice from BMW USA that my mileage and condition (and new tires) was well above the condition for which the buyout offer was made, and they refunded me an additional $2500 accordingly! I don't know how they came up with that number, other than the one line that said I got $300 mileage credit. I suspect some of this had to do with me going in a couple months before lease end, and I had pre-paid a lot of the lease up front, so some of that was likely pre-payment credit. Bottom line, I was expecting to pay $19.8K at lease end, but got the car for $17.5K two months earlier and saved the last two lease payments!
I replied,
Thanks for sharing that. That a lessor would renegotiate twice in favor of the lessee just boggles the mind! I'll share the info with our son who may be able to use it when their i3 comes off lease soon.


I lowered the "buy" price by about $5000 by being a f*cking hard-nosed basturd and refusing to buy until I got the price I wanted.
Whether that gets it done or not depends upon many factors; time and place among them. When 2017 Bolts finally arrived in Spokane, WA, Auto Nation had one LT and Camp had three Premiers. They were not budging off MSRP. An acquaintance and I were both serious buyers. He's one for the tuffbastid mode and after going round and round, both dealers said, "These will be in short supply up here for the next year." He demanded to see the sales managers; same answer. They just showed him the door and never bothered to call him. My wife wanted the Cajun Red one, so we paid $500 less than MSRP. The other guy still does not have a Bolt because neither dealer would give him the $5000 off and now he's lost the $7,500 tax credit opportunity.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

mwk
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:15 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:30 pm

I'm in the same boat, I'm just starting to think about what I want to do with my bolt. I actually have much less than 10k/yr, I'm doing about 5k/yr, so I don't know how that might affect the residual? Is that number negotiable when you turn in the car? Doesn't the dealer want to sell it to you?

Also, what is the expected life of these cars? If I take out a 5 year loan to buy it in 2020, will it last that long? Will I be just off payments finally and the battery pack dies? I love the car and I'd love to keep it if I could.

sparkyps
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:06 am

mwk wrote:I'm in the same boat, I'm just starting to think about what I want to do with my bolt. I actually have much less than 10k/yr, I'm doing about 5k/yr, so I don't know how that might affect the residual? Is that number negotiable when you turn in the car? Doesn't the dealer want to sell it to you?

Also, what is the expected life of these cars? If I take out a 5 year loan to buy it in 2020, will it last that long? Will I be just off payments finally and the battery pack dies? I love the car and I'd love to keep it if I could.


It isn't the dealer's car to sell to you, it is the leasing company's car. You don't buy it then it goes to auction, dealer could help you buy it but the deal is between you and the leasing company, they might pay the dealer to do some paperwork but otherwise the dealer doesn't even need to be involved in the process.

The residual is set in your lease contract, how many miles are on your car doesn't change the residual at all. Shame to see you only putting 5k miles a year on a lease, we put 15k+ on ours and won't be buying it at the end of the lease because the residual is $2k under what we could buy a brand new one for (right now) and frankly I think by 2020 there will be better options than the Bolt unless GM cuts MSRP. Hate that fake high MSRP it increases vehicle license costs in my state by over 25% for the life of the car because they base it on MSRP.

sparkyps
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:12 am

Pigwich wrote:I WENT TO THE DEALERSHIP TODAY!!

I skipped over the salesman and went straight to F & I and talked to the dude.

I'll have ended up paying $17,000 in "rent" , oh plus the $2500 I put down, and my residual is $25K, which adds up to MSRP, like magic! So where the fuck did my $7500 federal rebate go?!?!?!??!? Oh that's right, The lease company ate it, which is what they do. But what good did it do me? As it was explained to me, the leasing company uses it to prop up and protect and show a high residual value, and then they pick up the car and auction it off for a "loss"
.


You will overpay if your lease payments for 3 years are $17k and you put down $2500, you would give the federal tax credit away.

There are dealers advertising $199/mo and $3k down on 10k mile leases right now.

PackardV8
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:37 pm

sparkyps wrote:
mwk wrote:I'm in the same boat, I'm just starting to think about what I want to do with my bolt. I actually have much less than 10k/yr, I'm doing about 5k/yr, so I don't know how that might affect the residual? Is that number negotiable when you turn in the car? Doesn't the dealer want to sell it to you?

Also, what is the expected life of these cars? If I take out a 5 year loan to buy it in 2020, will it last that long? Will I be just off payments finally and the battery pack dies? I love the car and I'd love to keep it if I could.


It isn't the dealer's car to sell to you, it is the leasing company's car. You don't buy it then it goes to auction, dealer could help you buy it but the deal is between you and the leasing company, they might pay the dealer to do some paperwork but otherwise the dealer doesn't even need to be involved in the process.

The residual is set in your lease contract, how many miles are on your car doesn't change the residual at all. Shame to see you only putting 5k miles a year on a lease, we put 15k+ on ours and won't be buying it at the end of the lease because the residual is $2k under what we could buy a brand new one for (right now) and frankly I think by 2020 there will be better options than the Bolt unless GM cuts MSRP. Hate that fake high MSRP it increases vehicle license costs in my state by over 25% for the life of the car because they base it on MSRP.


Agree, I'd always been erroneously told the residual was a set hard number and could not be renegotiated at the end of the lease. Turns out not to be universally true. I now know a BMW owner and a Leaf owner who enjoyed a lowball lease monthly payment, resulting in a artificially high residual. They both were able to negotiate buyouts based on current blue book, several thousand below the residual. So the answer depends upon how good the owner/negotiator and how flexible the lessor.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

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