BoltEV
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:08 pm

Thank you, that was very clever!

So $25,026 is about average.

Airbesar
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:28 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:06 pm

Great topic.

This my first lease. Got it because I thought there would be spiffier EVs in 3 years. One year from lease end I'm not finding this to be the case.

The only thing close is the Kona. I like the faster charging and HB configuration but I don't like the slower acceleration. The price and the lack of an HB keeps me from Teslas.

I hear that one might be able to extend a lease by up to a year. If that proves true, I'd probably do that.

Otherwise, I'm probably backed into buying the Bolt and not liking the resale 3-4 years out when I expect EVs to be better. Another option is to buy a middle aged ICE HB to use for that period. But I HATE the idea of giving up the EV driving experience for that length of time. Sigh.

PackardV8
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:01 pm

paulgipe wrote: From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease.

Yes, No, Maybe. As long as the BEV in the garage accomplishes the needed transportation chores, does it matter that there's something newer, better, more expensive out there three years later? Our son and daughter-in-law bought the same logic as Paul quoted above and were early into a BMW i3 lease. However, reality was different. During their three-year-lease, BEV technology hasn't changed as rapidly as predicted. They love their BEV so much, they're running over the allowable miles. Now, with the end of the lease in sight, they wish they'd bought.

Because BMW subsidized the leases, the residual is way high. Then, the i3 goes to auction, brings much less than the residual and is resold by an independent on eBay for less than the original lesee would have had to pay in residual. Very strange bookkeeping.

paulgipe wrote: Also, as a US resident with a low income, the federal subsidies were useless to us, so leasing became the best strategy. . . . We got a hell of a deal on our lease ($250 USD/mo total) so it's unlikely buying it will be wise as the residual should be fairly high.

Without knowing your details; how much down, miles allowed, et al, that does seem like a great lease deal. We'd have definitely considered one of those, but GM and our dealer were nowhere near that. IIRC, it was on the order of $5000 down and $335 a month. We were also able to use the tax credit, so buying worked for us.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

BoltEV
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:54 pm

PackardV8 wrote:
paulgipe wrote: From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease.

Yes, No, Maybe. As long as the BEV in the garage accomplishes the needed transportation chores, does it matter that there's something newer, better, more expensive out there three years later?

YES! Of course: my 17 Bolt EV does not have Adaptive Cruise Control; it does not give me the option for internal Navigation, like Mary Barra promised in the keynote speech at 2016 CES; it does not have Auto Emergency Braking and other new safety features that saves lives!

The evolution of these truly desirable features are coming at a much faster pace then at any time since I received my first drivers license in 1965!

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:25 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:08 pm

PackardV8 wrote:Because BMW subsidized the leases, the residual is way high. Then, the i3 goes to auction, brings much less than the residual and is resold by an independent on eBay for less than the original lesee would have had to pay in residual. Very strange bookkeeping.


Regarding this, the leasing company can write off the difference as a loss. Even though they didn't really pay the residual, so that in itself is funny bookkeeping.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

PackardV8
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:16 pm

BoltEV wrote:
PackardV8 wrote:
paulgipe wrote: From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease.

Yes, No, Maybe. As long as the BEV in the garage accomplishes the needed transportation chores, does it matter that there's something newer, better, more expensive out there three years later?

YES! Of course: my 17 Bolt EV does not have Adaptive Cruise Control; it does not give me the option for internal Navigation, like Mary Barra promised in the keynote speech at 2016 CES; it does not have Auto Emergency Braking and other new safety features that saves lives!

The evolution of these truly desirable features are coming at a much faster pace then at any time since I received my first drivers license in 1965!


Agree on adaptive cruise. There's no valid excuse for it not being standard.

Disagree on internal navigation. Surveys show a majority of drivers actually prefer to use one familiar system for all navigation - their phone.

Disagree on auto emergency braking as it exists today. Those I've driven take away driver options without providing the ultimate answer - a true autopilot suite. Just last week, one of those systems caused a major pileup by "emergency braking" when an inflatable beach ball blew across the highway. An attentive driver would have made the correct decision there was no threat and held speed. (Of course, an attentive human driver also caused a major pileup by emergency braking in heavy traffic when a stray dog ran across the road.)

As to saving lives - since "personal mobile devices" are the problem, the solution is let all the passengers play with their forkin' fones and let computers drive the car. Those I've ridden in are already safer than the vast majority of humans. They make for a very dull, slow ride, but safe.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

SeanNelson
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:43 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:45 pm

PackardV8 wrote:Just last week, one of those systems caused a major pileup by "emergency braking" when an inflatable beach ball blew across the highway. An attentive driver would have made the correct decision there was no threat and held speed.

Wouldn't an attentive driver just have pressed harder on the accelerator to override the emergency brake? From page 225 of my 2017 Bolt manual:
FAB [Forward Automatic Braking] may automatically brake the vehicle suddenly in situations where it is unexpected and undesired. It could respond to a turning vehicle ahead, guardrails, signs, and other non-moving objects. To override FAB, firmly press the accelerator pedal, if it is safe to do so.

WetEV
Moderator
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:26 pm
Location: Near Seattle

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:56 pm

PackardV8 wrote:Disagree on internal navigation. Surveys show a majority of drivers actually prefer to use one familiar system for all navigation - their phone.


Prefer? Sure. But I'd like to car to have navigation, even if somewhat out of date and less useful than the phone. The reason is range estimation.

The car could, and I'm aware of none that do today, use the route to estimate future energy use and thus range.
#49 on the LEAF 100 mile club.
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red
2014 Leaf SL Red
Can't sit in a Bolt seat, hoping for better soon.
Or perhaps a Buick version? Buick Electra 225???

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