PackardV8
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:13 pm

FWIW, one has to read all the posts with some care. Here, on the other Bolt site and on other BEV sites, some contributors math and analytics require interpretation.

One example is subtracting all the/ dealer allowances, credits and rebates to come up with a low purchase price; but then neglecting to add back in the state sales tax, state BEV fee, dealer add-ons and the like.

Another gave a low monthly lease payment, but neglected to factor in the $5,000 up front requirement.

As the third year of Bolt production winds down and the federal tax credit is being halved, the computations become more complex. Even though we bought the first one available here in Spokane and had to pay close to MSRP, the Bolt was just so perfect for our use, we said, "Ignore the math. Even though the Bolt will never pay off in savings, but it's what we want to be driving every day."

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

sparkyps
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:57 pm

BoltyMcBoltFace wrote:
BoltEV wrote:Buy a NEW 2019 Bolt EV for $26K less tax incentives!?!

What am I missing here?


The $26k might be a unicorn, but I've seen a claim somewhere that some dealer in CA was offering that. I can't find it now, but did find this that showed a dealer offering $29k for a new one, including one that appears to have a few options. A screenshot is in the article.

https://insideevs.com/features/349236/c ... 6-a-month/


Prices have gone up since some GM incentives expired on Jun 3 but a number of California dealers have been advertising LT's for $26k and sometimes less. Some are a not really interested in selling you a Bolt at their advertised price, Win Chevrolet has fine print claiming they add a $1999 protection package and in general doesn't have accurate advertised prices at all and they'll even admit they list incentives that don't exist that pop up on their pages from time to time, Martin Chevrolet has had many for $26k but that was prior to Jun 4th, Glendora Chevrolet is another that has had low advertised prices.

We'll see what happens to the used car pricing with 2017's start coming off lease, right now prices aren't "sensible" given what new Bolts actually sell for (ignoring dealers with misleading advertised pricing).

I've pretty much given up dealing with Chevy dealers, always leaves me with a bad headache just trying to do something simple like getting an out the door price. They seem to still all be about selling dealer add-ons and just hate to give accurate, firm pricing. Too bad, if GM would stop with the fake MSRP and sell direct at a reasonable price I would have probably clicked and ordered one by now. Dealers are going to be the death of them IMO.

PackardV8
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:53 pm

sparkyps wrote:We'll see what happens to the used car pricing with 2017's start coming off lease, right now prices aren't "sensible" given what new Bolts actually sell for.
I wouldn't wait for off-lease deals. The residuals I've seen are way high. It depends on what the auction market thinks the Bolts are worth. Good deals could happen, as BMW i3s off-lease, going to auction and then being offered on the internet have been very attractively priced.

sparkyps wrote:I've pretty much given up dealing with Chevy dealers, always leaves me with a bad headache just trying to do something simple like getting an out the door price. They seem to still all be about selling dealer add-ons and just hate to give accurate, firm pricing. Too bad, if GM would stop with the fake MSRP and sell direct at a reasonable price I would have probably clicked and ordered one by now. Dealers are going to be the death of them IMO.
[/quote][/quote]X2, but GM couldn't if it wanted to. Car dealers were instrumental in having state laws passed prohibiting manufacturers from selling direct to consumers.

When the Bolt was The New Thing, there was no option but to suck it up and pay close to MSRP and nicely tell the dealer to fuggediboudt his add-ons.

If one has been willing to wait three years, these days it would be possible to buy a Bolt out of California at a substantial discount from MSRP and have it shipped wherever. But then, three years ago, there was the full $7500 federal tax credit, so that made a difference in choosing to buy then.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

BoltEV
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:00 pm

When I buy out my Bolt EV at the end of my lease in January for the residual, I will have paid approx the full MSRP that was offered to me at the time I first acquired it.

And the lease company will get the benefit of the federal tax credit, which was of no value to me at that time anyway.

Waiving approximately $3,500 in mileage overage penaltirs and the $400 teturn fee will only serve to reduce the cost of the residual further for me.

PackardV8
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:02 pm

BoltEV wrote:When I buy out my Bolt EV at the end of my lease in January for the residual, I will have paid approx the full MSRP that was offered to me at the time I first acquired it.

And the lease company will get the benefit of the federal tax credit, which was of no value to me at that time anyway.

Waiving approximately $3,500 in mileage overage penaltirs and the $400 teturn fee will only serve to reduce the cost of the residual further for me.
Since the net cost is the same and you are buying the car at the end of the lease, what was the advantage of leasing versus purchasing?

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

BoltEV
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:25 pm

PackardV8 wrote:Since the net cost is the same and you are buying the car at the end of the lease, what was the advantage of leasing versus purchasing?

jack vines

Leaving aside whatever tax benefits there are from leasing (which were not important to me), let me give you the example of my 2013-2016 Chevy Volt lease.

All in, include payment at the time I took possession of the vehicle, this vehicle cost me $15 000. During those three years I got the chance to drive a pure EV with a 40 mile battery and a gas fueled electric generator.

However, I knew I wanted a pure BEV with much greater range that existed on the market at that time, as I did not want a Tesla S.

The lease gave me the flexibility to walk away from the Volt, free and clear, and obtain the Bolt EV a little over 3 months later.

Now I coukd have purchased the Volt and resold it onthe used market on January 3rd 2017 when I acquired my Bolt EV; but I doubt I would have done much better than $15,000 and I had none of the hassles of going through the sales process.

I wanted the similar flexibility to gain the “state of the art” for the next BEV in January 2020.

HOwever, it appears that the Bolt EV was: (a) ahead of the curve, (b) the Tesla Model 3 willbe a $65,000 vehicle stripped down to $35,000 (if it will ever really be available at the price), (c) the Hyundai Kona EV has diminished leg room in the back seat, and (d) the other long range vehicles (Jaguar and Audi) are priced as luxury vehicles.

So even though I “paid” for the option to walk away frommy Bolt EV, it appears I will be acquiring it instead.

I am not unhappy that I financed in this way, only that there is no competitive new vehicle, to acquire as a new BEV for me in January 2020.

PackardV8
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:25 am

BoltEV wrote: The lease gave me the flexibility to walk away from the Volt, free and clear, and obtain the Bolt EV a little over 3 months later.
I wanted the similar flexibility to gain the “state of the art” for the next BEV in January 2020. . . . HOwever, it appears that the Bolt EV was: (a) ahead of the curve, . . . So even though I “paid” for the option to walk away frommy Bolt EV, it appears I will be acquiring it instead. . . .
I am not unhappy that I financed in this way, only that there is no competitive new vehicle, to acquire as a new BEV for me in January 2020.
Interestingly, our son leased a BMW i3 for the reasons you iterated and gave me a ration of grief for buying the Bolt. As it happens, BEV technology did not move as quickly as the blogosphere predicted. He admitted he wishes now he'd bought the i3. He's also shopping for a used Bolt for a second BEV. As it happens, there are few available. The Bolt is so good and so durable, few wish to part with theirs.

jack vines
My vehicles
2017 Bolt Premier Cajun Red
2011 Saab 9-4X
2005 Saab 9-5
1998 Saab 9000 Aero
2004 Ford F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel
1963 Studebaker Avanti
1956 Studebaker Hawk custom with a supercharged Packard V8
1955 Studebaker custom pickup with a Packard V8

SparkE
Moderator
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:53 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:11 pm

Personally, I plan on buying used - it is generally a much better deal.

I bought a used Spark EV for my wife to drive (I originally leased a different one for $89/mo and we both loved it) - it cost me $8500 for a 3-year-old vehicle that originally cost $28k). It is a fantastic "around the area" most-every-day car.

I will be looking at Bolt lease returns (used vehicles) starting in 2020, to see if I should upgrade to a longer range vehicle (even it we don't *need* to, flexibility is king). I am hoping that prices will be around $10-12k.

BoltEV
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:58 pm

PackardV8 wrote:
BoltEV wrote: The lease gave me the flexibility to walk away from the Volt, free and clear, and obtain the Bolt EV a little over 3 months later.
I wanted the similar flexibility to gain the “state of the art” for the next BEV in January 2020. . . . HOwever, it appears that the Bolt EV was: (a) ahead of the curve, . . . So even though I “paid” for the option to walk away frommy Bolt EV, it appears I will be acquiring it instead. . . .
I am not unhappy that I financed in this way, only that there is no competitive new vehicle, to acquire as a new BEV for me in January 2020.
Interestingly, our son leased a BMW i3 for the reasons you iterated and gave me a ration of grief for buying the Bolt. As it happens, BEV technology did not move as quickly as the blogosphere predicted. He admitted he wishes now he'd bought the i3. He's also shopping for a used Bolt for a second BEV. As it happens, there are few available. The Bolt is so good and so durable, few wish to part with theirs.

jack vines

BMW made the strange decision to limit the gas tank on its "range extender" to about one gallon, instead of the 9 gallons on the Chevy Volt. I guess it gives them some sort of California CARB "points" but is way too limiting for me! I am glad he likes it though.

Never look back; the decision to make is todays!

After driving a 1983 Volvo Turbo Sedan for 12 years (the car was originally a lease by my employer at the time and I purchased it at the end of the lease), I wanted to return to a "rag top" and saw an adorable 1997 Chrysler Sebring on the NBA Playoffs (with Michael Jordan starring!).

Being a bit shy about returning to an American vehicle and knowing that Volvo would come out with its first new convertible in one year, I leased the Sebring for two years on a "one-payment" plan.

Two years later I had the choice of.a $46,000 Volvo C60 convertible or the $18,000 buy out of my lease. I, of course, purchased my lease and drove it for a total of 12 years.

It didn't make any difference that I could have purchased it new, two years earlier. I paid for the option to walk away from it and it was still a good deal when I purchased it.

I have scanned the market and my residual is still under what used 2017 Bolt EVs are selling for. But of course, when the 2020 model year comes out and my lease expires in January, they will get cheaper.

But with my expected $3,500 mileage penalty (and $400 lease return fee) to save; it effectively makes my Bolt the best buy of the lot and I know how well it was taken care of for 3 years! :)
Last edited by BoltEV on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BoltEV
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

Re: So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:01 pm

SparkE wrote:Personally, I plan on buying used - it is generally a much better deal.

I bought a used Spark EV for my wife to drive (I originally leased a different one for $89/mo and we both loved it) - it cost me $8500 for a 3-year-old vehicle that originally cost $28k). It is a fantastic "around the area" most-every-day car.

I will be looking at Bolt lease returns (used vehicles) starting in 2020, to see if I should upgrade to a longer range vehicle (even it we don't *need* to, flexibility is king). I am hoping that prices will be around $10-12k.

Let us know how buying in the used marketplace works out for you!

When I mentioned the mileage penalty problem with using a leased Bolt EV for Uber, my nephew offered to refer me to "a friend" who rolls back mileage on odometers! :o

Just pointing out, you never really know the quality, care and handling of any used car, unless you are buying out your own lease! ;)

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