And now Ford is joining the 200 mile EV party

[lukestuke]

Granted, details are still slim, ok, vauge, or even non-existence, but Ford has confirmed they are preparing a competitor for the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3.

Following the Ford Focus Electric update to 100+ mile range, Ford is working on another vehicle.

CEO Mark Fields, when asked whether the automaker intended to offer a battery-electric vehicle with a 200-mile range, said Ford wants to be “among the leaders or in a leadership position” as more automakers introduce long-range battery-powered cars.

“Clearly that’s something we’re developing for,” Fields said on Ford’s first-quarter earnings conference call.

Fields’ comments, while lacking details, are the first time a top executive with the company has acknowledged specific plans to directly challenge Tesla Motors and the Bolt.

Fields didn’t say how soon such a vehicle could go on sale. Ford is expected to call it the “Model E” and assemble it starting in 2019 at a new plant in Mexico that the company announced earlier this month.

If it only comes in 2020, that could be too late - unless it has the 300-400 mile range that the next gen EVs could have by then... It's 4 years behind the Bolt EV, and at least 2 behind the Model 3. How fast is Ford willing to move to stay at the EV table with the other automakers?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Granted, details are still slim, ok, vauge, or even non-existence, but Ford has confirmed they are preparing a competitor for the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3.

Following the Ford Focus Electric update to 100+ mile range, Ford is working on another vehicle.

CEO Mark Fields, when asked whether the automaker intended to offer a battery-electric vehicle with a 200-mile range, said Ford wants to be “among the leaders or in a leadership position” as more automakers introduce long-range battery-powered cars.

“Clearly that’s something we’re developing for,” Fields said on Ford’s first-quarter earnings conference call.

Fields’ comments, while lacking details, are the first time a top executive with the company has acknowledged specific plans to directly challenge Tesla Motors and the Bolt.

Fields didn’t say how soon such a vehicle could go on sale. Ford is expected to call it the “Model E” and assemble it starting in 2019 at a new plant in Mexico that the company announced earlier this month.

If it only comes in 2020, that could be too late - unless it has the 300-400 mile range that the next gen EVs could have by then... It's 4 years behind the Bolt EV, and at least 2 behind the Model 3. How fast is Ford willing to move to stay at the EV table with the other automakers?

Of course Ford, and everyone else, will have to compete with the Bolt/Model III/Leaf 2.0. They could endlessly lower prices on their 100-mile BEV, or build a platform for a proper 200-mile BEV. Both are valid strategies, although the latter is likely to be more successful. Even though 100 miles is "enough" for most people, most of the time, Ford of all companies should know that's not how people choose their cars. Ford's best-selling model is the F150. That's hardly an example of a vehicle that covers only 90% of one's needs.

If it only comes in 2020, that could be too late - unless it has the 300-400 mile range that the next gen EVs could have by then... It's 4 years behind the Bolt EV, and at least 2 behind the Model 3. How fast is Ford willing to move to stay at the EV table with the other automakers?

I keep hearing things like this, but I don't know on what intel they are based. Maybe you can elaborate?

The way I see it, the 200-mile "party" second-gen arrives in the 2017 model year with the Bolt and Leaf 2. You are only talking about 3 years later. The Model III will just be reaching full-rate production around 2020. 2020 will most likely see a facelift of the Bolt, with some modest styling / feature updates. IMHO we are more likely to see autopilot hit the scene in 2020 than to see the Bolt leap to 300-400 miles of range. That range will be reserved for cars like the Model S.

Look at gen I. It arrived at a 2011 model with the Volt / Leaf 1. Both of those cars ran for 5 model years before seeing a slight increase in range in 2016. The Leaf 1 will run a total of 6 model years with very little increase in range (~25%, no where near a doubling).

We will see the day soon where 300-400 mile BEVs are readily affordable, but let's be realistic. It won't come in 2020. But we can be pretty sure it will by 2030.

The other part, that it's "too late", also seems a bit extreme. First-mover certainly has its advantages, but if Ford strikes a cord with their offering (e.g. lower price, sportier/sexier packaging, etc), it will sell just fine.

Bottom line - Ford will come to the party but late. This fits their "fast follower" strategy in which they let others blaze new trails and open new markets. I think Ford will make a nice vehicle that will sell next to the Bolt. Together, the two will continue to grow the market. And that's what we need.

 

[michael]

I'm a big Ford fan and have been happy with my Focus Electric, but they have really dropped the ball. Their Energi models are weak compared to the Volt, and the 100-mile FFE will be obsolete the moment it is available for sale.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm a big Ford fan and have been happy with my Focus Electric, but they have really dropped the ball. Their Energi models are weak compared to the Volt, and the 100-mile FFE will be obsolete the moment it is available for sale.

The Energi is only "weak" in two metrics compared to the first-gen Volt - All Electric Range / All Electric Acceleration. They are much more refined vehicles than the Volt, and have much friendlier user interfaces. They are also faster than the Volt (although you have to burn some gas to harness that power). Basically they are souped-up hybrids, as opposed to a range-extended electric.

My CMax Energi has much more room than even a new Volt. I can comfortably sit in the back seat, between two car seats. The trunk is also larger, so I can actually bring my family on vacation.

And before you say that 20 miles isn't "enough", I will point out that my wife has gone for up to 3 months without burning any gas at all. It only kicks on the engine when we are leaving town.

So no, I don't agree that they are "weak" offerings, from a holistic view. Only from an EV "purist" view. But the real purists poo-poo the Volt anyway for having a gas tank, so you can't win. The Volt certainly is the pinnacle of the PHEV crowd, but I still think Ford did an excellent job bringing the Energi offerings to market. I can't wait to see what they do with the next generation.

 

[michael]

My dislike for the approach taken with the Energi models has three main facets.

The first is their weak motor and small battery. While your wife's commute may be within their limits, mine would be underserved. I have an 80 mile round trip commute, with home and workplace charging. It's 90% freeway, typically 65 to 80 mph. An Energi would be consuming gasoline essentially the whole trip. Coworkers who live near me and drive Energi models use about a gallon every day. In my Focus, I make the trip easily on electricity, and when I drive the Volt I also often use no gas at all, and at at most a pint or two.

My second objection is that once my Energi driving coworkers arrive, they plug in. If they go out for lunch, even a few miles, it significantly depletes their tiny batteries, so they plug back in for the afternoon. These cars end up monopolizing scarce charging spaces.

My final objection is California specific, but I think it was a waste to let these cars use up so many of the scarce carpool stickers. Why should cars that can't even drive freeway speeds without using gas get these? And now there and none left for buyers of Volts or BMW I3s.

These cars were advanced when they came out, but no longer.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

My dislike for the approach taken with the Energi models has three main facets.

Fair enough. Your first point seems to be that you really need to match your car with your needs. And my point is that the Energi matches some peoples needs (like mine) better than a Volt. In fact, the Volt doesn't meet them at all. So as a mode of transportation, the Volt is infinitely "weaker" than the CMax for me and my family.

My second objection is that once my Energi driving coworkers arrive, they plug in. If they go out for lunch, even a few miles, it significantly depletes their tiny batteries, so they plug back in for the afternoon. These cars end up monopolizing scarce charging spaces.

My final objection is California specific, but I think it was a waste to let these cars use up so many of the scarce carpool stickers. Why should cars that can't even drive freeway speeds without using gas get these? And now there and none left for buyers of Volts or BMW I3s.

These are valid concerns. Both public charging and carpool stickers are limited resourced. It seems to me (from the other side of the continent) that CA should completely do away with the carpool sticker incentive soon- EVs have pretty much reached critical mass, and the financial incentives should be enough to continue sales.

These cars were advanced when they came out, but no longer.

Yes and no. They are no longer cutting edge, but they are still far more advanced than literally 99% of the cars sold in the US so far this year.

 

[picasso]

If it only comes in 2020, that could be too late - unless it has the 300-400 mile range that the next gen EVs could have by then... It's 4 years behind the Bolt EV, and at least 2 behind the Model 3. How fast is Ford willing to move to stay at the EV table with the other automakers?

I keep hearing things like this, but I don't know on what intel they are based. Maybe you can elaborate?

This thinking is based on people's and my 'feelings' So no, I won't quote any intel!

I think the feeling comes from the speed at which Chevy is announcing/unveiling/launching the Chevy Bolt EV. They're doing it to stay competitive.... and they are causing Nissan to scramble with their LEAF 2.0 announcement (right now Nissan is quiet, but soon they'll have to announce something otherwise they could very well lose LEAF supporters to the Bolt when it comes out later this year).

In 2018 (or next year), I could see another automaker pulling the same quick-launch strategy into the electric vehicle realm. Announcing/unveiling/launching a 300 or 400 mile purpose built electric vehicle within a short time period. (Maybe Toyota with an improved Rav4 EV, maybe BMW with an all electric i5?)

If somebody does that, then immediately the 'next realm' of EVs is opened up just like the Bolt has done, and then other automakers need to scramble. Chevy could then quick-release a Bolt 2.0 with additional range (if they've planned the platform with more battery pack space or if battery density increases enough).

The other part, that it's "too late", also seems a bit extreme. First-mover certainly has its advantages, but if Ford strikes a cord with their offering (e.g. lower price, sportier/sexier packaging, etc), it will sell just fine.

This is a very good point. Chevy is doing this with the BOlt. Granted they were in the EV space already with the Volt, but without a pure EV, they've leap-frogged over Nissan (and any other compliance EV automakers like Toyota Rav4EV and Honda Fit EV).

I guess first-mover is an advantage for a while, but with cars there are different ways to attract buyers. I just think of Apple with the first smart phone, and others are still trying to catch up. In order to keep market advantage, the first mover needs to keep moving!

 

[michael]

I very much doubt we will see any EVs from Toyota. They are committed to hybrid and to fool cell.

 

[Anonymous]

Ford lost my family as a customer 3 years ago, we traded our two Ford's and now have two EV's, a Smart ED and Tesla. We had owned 4 Ford's over the past 20 years, but no longer.

Only one Ford product appeals to me at all, and I don't see getting a Mustang GT350 when I will be getting a Tesla 3 in a few years time that will blow the doors off that Mustang light to light when performance is fun, and cruise silently on the highway when comfort matters.