The Chevy Bolt still doesn't compare to Tesla's Model 3

[JimmYK]

'll say it upfront: if you're looking for a good electric car, the Chevy Bolt is not a bad option.

For $37,500, the Bolt offers a solid range of 238 miles on a single charge. That's impressive, especially considering that Tesla's Model 3 is only expected to have a range of 215 miles per charge.

But there's more to consider than just range, especially when the mileage difference is fairly small. Here are the advantages of waiting for the Model 3:

Read the full article: http://www.businessinsider.com/chevy-bolt-vs-tesla-model-3-2016-9

 

[michael]

Model 3 may (or may not) be a better car than the Bolt, but in my mind any such advantages are dwarfed by Bolts availability.

In March, my Volt lease expires and I fully expect to be able to lease a Bolt, and at about the same monthly rate. I expect to have 30,000 miles on that Bolt before I would even be able to get hold of a Model 3.

There is no logic in waiting. In three years, I will again consider the Model 3, but for now there literally is no choice.

 

[DucRider]

I can think of several reason why the Bolt doesn't compare to the Model 3:
1) You'll be able to buy/lease one late this year or early next year.
2) When you do make the purchase or lease decision, you won't need to wait months (or even years) to take delivery. In the near future, you'll be able to take it home that very day.
3) If needed, service will likely be more convenient and closer - and you won't have a 10-12 week wait
4) The Bolt has (and is) undergoing extensive real world testing with hundreds of thousands of miles logged - BEFORE it is shipped. GM is not under pressure to rush it out the door and count on early adopters to do the Beta Testing
5) If some QC issues do crop on the Bolt (unlikely), the chances of it bankrupting GM are nil. If the QC issues that have plagued every Tesla (late and rushed) model release crop up, it could mean that Tesla won't be around to service/support the car.
6) In case of an accident/mishap/warranty issue, parts are much more likely to be available - Tesla has the habit of diverting every single part to production and leaving existing owners waiting for parts (I know an X owner who broke a door switch and has been waiting 6 weeks - and counting = to get a replacement).

But then again, it's really not fair to compare a production ready vehicle to a concept car like the Model 3, Budd-e, Mission E, etc. It's very easy to promise a set of specs (that are subject to change at any time), but another thing entirely to produce and ship reliable vehicles in a timely fashion.

This is not an anti-Tesla rant. I greatly admire them and without what they have done and have announced, it is extremely unlikely that the Bolt would even exist. But this constant - only Tesla - everyone should buy a Tesla - nothing compares to a Tesla - wait for 2-3 years so you can buy a Tesla nonsense get's on my nerves.

When the time comes that it possible to seriously evaluate the Model 3, I'll consider it. But I expect that to be at least two years away. I did not make Tesla an interest free loan, I am not a current Tesla owner, and I'm very unlikely to be a player at much above the $35K mark. All these contribute to a VERY long wait if I want a Model 3 (and the $7,500 tax credit will likely be off the table).

Whhen the Modle 3, LEAF 2.0, etc are actually available, they'll be considered. Until then, I'll evaluate what is really out there.

 

[Geo]

If these two cars were powered by gasoline, nobody would be comparing them.

One is a more practical hatchback, the other is a sporty four door. Completely different cars that address different needs.

No comparison.

 

[michael]

Well, since DucRider has made those very good points, let me give my personal experience in support...

GM bashers have labelled the Volt's drivetrain as "overly complex" and "prone to failure" but in fact if you read the Volt forums on the internet, you will see vanishingly few, possibly NO reports of failure of the Voltec system. My two have been flawless.

By contrast, the the holy, simple Tesla motor has constant failures reported. My close friends drive a RAV-4 EV which has a Tesla drivetrain...they have had the motor replaced once, and it looks like they will need a third motor very soon. The first one took two months for a replacement to arrive from Tesla, and this is commonplace...look on the Rav-4 EV message board for reports of this.

If it weren't for Tesla's valet service, we would be hearing howls of complaints about Tesla's unreliability.

 

[SeanNelson]

\GM bashers have labelled the Volt's drivetrain as "overly complex" and "prone to failure" but in fact if you read the Volt forums on the internet, you will see vanishingly few, possibly NO reports of failure of the Voltec system. My two have been flawless.

While I admire the Volt very much and would likely be driving one today if it weren't for it's seriously compromised back seat and rear visibility, I've been following the Volt forums and I have to say that there have been too many reports of Gen2 problems for my liking. I don't follow the Tesla forums, so I have no idea if their situation is worse or not, but I've seen at least a few Volt owners complaining about how their car has had teething problems that caused it to spend more time in the shop than in their driveway. These are a small minority of drivers, of course, but it's always the worse problems that get the most publicity and of course that's true for Tesla as well.

I'm planning to buy a Bolt anyway, because despite those Volt problems I'm still greatly impressed by GM's ability to engineer the vehicle and provide it with what seems to be a bullet-proof battery. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that its simpler architecture and close attention to quality control by GM during this high-profile product rollout will keep it largely trouble-free.

 

[SeanNelson]

(duplicate post, please ignore)

 

[roundpeg]

When the time comes that it possible to seriously evaluate the Model 3, I'll consider it. But I expect that to be at least two years away. I did not make Tesla an interest free loan, I am not a current Tesla owner, and I'm very unlikely to be a player at much above the $35K mark. All these contribute to a VERY long wait if I want a Model 3 (and the $7,500 tax credit will likely be off the table).

Especially this. The tax credits were intended to jump-start this industry. Tesla has taken the lion's share of the benefit over the last few years, but now this market is becoming crowded and the time is soon coming when Tesla will have to toddle on their own. It's also telling that when California renewed funding for its own tax credits recently they were income-capped for the first time. The message is, the "real" market for EVs is in the under-$40K price range, where non-affluent people can consider them. It's a bit ironic that Tesla will be second if not third or fourth to this market, despite the head start they were given by the credits. It would be doubly ironic if that well ran dry by the time they got there.

 

[DucRider]

Especially this. The tax credits were intended to jump-start this industry. Tesla has taken the lion's share of the benefit over the last few years, but now this market is becoming crowded and the time is soon coming when Tesla will have to toddle on their own. It's also telling that when California renewed funding for its own tax credits recently they were income-capped for the first time. The message is, the "real" market for EVs is in the under-$40K price range, where non-affluent people can consider them. It's a bit ironic that Tesla will be second if not third or fourth to this market, despite the head start they were given by the credits. It would be doubly ironic if that well ran dry by the time they got there.

The expiration date is separate for each manufacturer and comes only after an automaker sells 200,000 qualified vehicles.
GM used over 100K with the Volt. Tesla is a bit behind, but at the rate they are delivering the S and X, they're not that far behind, and the Model 3 MAY sell faster than the Bolt and Tesla may reach the phase out period first.
From the IRS website:

Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit (IRC 30D) Phase Out
The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer’s vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) (“phase-out period”). Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period.

 

[roundpeg]

The expiration date is separate for each manufacturer and comes only after an automaker sells 200,000 qualified vehicles.
GM used over 100K with the Volt. Tesla is a bit behind, but at the rate they are delivering the S and X, they're not that far behind, and the Model 3 MAY sell faster than the Bolt and Tesla may reach the phase out period first.

Fair enough but I think it is still true that Telsa has built its business, such as it is (not profitable), on the tax credits, but by the time the EV market matures they might well find themselves on the outside looking in.

 

[DucRider]

The expiration date is separate for each manufacturer and comes only after an automaker sells 200,000 qualified vehicles.
GM used over 100K with the Volt. Tesla is a bit behind, but at the rate they are delivering the S and X, they're not that far behind, and the Model 3 MAY sell faster than the Bolt and Tesla may reach the phase out period first.

Fair enough but I think it is still true that Telsa has built its business, such as it is (not profitable), on the tax credits, but by the time the EV market matures they might well find themselves on the outside looking in.

Tesla does not get ANY of the tax credits - those go to the purchaser. I seriously doubt a significant percentage of Tesla purchases were dependent on the tax credit being available.

ZEV/CARB credits are a different story. Tesla has made something around $20K per car selling those credits to other manufacturers. One of the reasons they are motivated to produce their own ZEV Gold qualified vehicles. It sticks in their craw to write a check to Tesla.

 

[roundpeg]

Tesla does not get ANY of the tax credits - those go to the purchaser. I seriously doubt a significant percentage of Tesla purchases were dependent on the tax credit being available.

ZEV/CARB credits are a different story. Tesla has made something around $20K per car selling those credits to other manufacturers. One of the reasons they are motivated to produce their own ZEV Gold qualified vehicles. It sticks in their craw to write a check to Tesla.

The tax credits may be paid to the consumer, but they allow the manufacturer to set the sticker price that much higher for the car. Chevy will no doubt be marketing the Bolt's price net the credits. So in reality, those dollars go (if indirectly) to the manufacturers.

I agree, probably few Tesla buyers to date were thinking much about the tax credits, but that wasn't actually my point. What I am saying is nearly the opposite: by the time Tesla is ready to market a car to an audience to whom the credits will make a real difference, that pool of dollars might very well have dried up.