24 Hour test drive

Not by me, but by a Tesla owner. I thought it was a totally fair review. He praises the car's strengths, assesses it for what it is, and points out some of the issues raised in this forum.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chevy-bolt-24-hour-test-drive-its-no-tesla-but-its-not-bad.84945/

Completely agree. Watched it last night and his biggest complaint in regards to the car's usability involves the crappy QC network. There were other minor issues, typical for any car, things that may or may not matter to the next guy. But as everyone on this forum has been aware of, GM's refusal to get actively involved in any sort of QC network contrasts sharply with Tesla's approach. A Tesla driver knows that not only will he be able to find a convenient SC location, but that it will be properly maintained, in a safe and well lit environment, and will have plenty of available stalls. Some CA locations(as mentioned, Tejon, e.g.)may see bottlenecks but other than that, if you want to take a road trip in a Tesla, log into your app, get directions, as well as info on the SC you will need to stop at, and voila! Honestly, I don't know how this can be overcome by GM. Frankly, joining up with Tesla even if it is to add CCS to Tesla SC locations, would make sense. Not going to happen, unless some 3rd party vendor decides to set up a joint venture. I did see that now that the SC's are going to be charging for new owners, the rates are not outrageous. If CCS/Chademo setups were there also, any restaurants/fast food, etc. would be even better utilized if more drivers had access. Might be a viable way to expand a network beyond just Tesla SC stalls.

Lou

Gatedad said:

But as everyone on this forum has been aware of, GM's refusal to get actively involved in any sort of QC network contrasts sharply with Tesla's approach. A Tesla driver knows that not only will he be able to find a convenient SC location, but that it will be properly maintained, in a safe and well lit environment, and will have plenty of available stalls. Some CA locations(as mentioned, Tejon, e.g.)may see bottlenecks but other than that, if you want to take a road trip in a Tesla, log into your app, get directions, as well as info on the SC you will need to stop at, and voila! Honestly, I don't know how this can be overcome by GM. Frankly, joining up with Tesla even if it is to add CCS to Tesla SC locations, would make sense. Not going to happen, unless some 3rd party vendor decides to set up a joint venture. I did see that now that the SC's are going to be charging for new owners, the rates are not outrageous. If CCS/Chademo setups were there also, any restaurants/fast food, etc. would be even better utilized if more drivers had access. Might be a viable way to expand a network beyond just Tesla SC stalls.

Lou

Click to expand...

I think you are being a bit too pessimistic about quick charging. Tesla needed to roll out the Supercharger network because they were the first and only automaker building long-range cars that needed them. There is no need for GM or any other car company in the US to build their own individual charging networks. California has already funded a large expansion in the existing highway charging network and Volkswagen is going to be the car maker to build out a national highway fast charge network usable by everyone as a result of their EPA dieselgate court settlement last year. Once we get more long-range cars on the road and the first national charging network is bootstrapped by VW then other private interests will move in to eventually compete.

See my comments about that here:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1938525/

OK this is OT.

Call me pessimistic, but once the Model 3 gets going it's going to be like a hoard of locus descending on the charging network and if the Tesla owners can't charge at the nearest Supercharger they will spill over to the other fast chargers in the area. I think Tesla has grossly underestimated the Model 3 and the strain it is going to have on their Supercharger network. Ultimately this will be a net loss for people who can't charge at the Superchargers - like the Bolts. It will be backed up with Model 3s. I really hope I am wrong because I eventually want to own a Model 3, but have to wait for my Bolt lease to expire in three years - it is going to be interesting.

dan2112 said:

... if the Tesla owners can't charge at the nearest Supercharger they will spill over to the other fast chargers in the area.)

Click to expand...

Really? Do you think that many Tesla owners will pony up $500 each for CHAdeMO adapters and then clog the 45 kW public fast chargers instead of using the 100+ kW superchargers?

That may have some effect in the near term, but any real increases in demand will hopefully lead to more investment in the public network, a good thing.

BTW, check out miimura's map of the _currently funded_ DCFCs along transportation corridors in California (does not show many more in metro areas):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VEJLK0-wcAhWV8Q0MirTLULd5mg

dan2112 said:

Call me pessimistic, but once the Model 3 gets going it's going to be like a hoard of locus descending on the charging network and if the Tesla owners can't charge at the nearest Supercharger they will spill over to the other fast chargers in the area. I think Tesla has grossly underestimated the Model 3 and the strain it is going to have on their Supercharger network.

Click to expand...

I'm going to call you optimistic! Tesla knows they always delay their new model releases by a couple of years. There will be plenty of time to build charging infrastructure.

Since the truly fast chargers (not the 7 kW Level 2) are for-profit, if they actually do get heavy use then hopefully more will be built. And building more is very good because then longer trips would be more feasible, as would owning an electric car without having a house. But that won't happen unless they get busy.

tgreene said:

dan2112 said:

... if the Tesla owners can't charge at the nearest Supercharger they will spill over to the other fast chargers in the area.)

Click to expand...

Really? Do you think that many Tesla owners will pony up $500 each for CHAdeMO adapters and then clog the 45 kW public fast chargers instead of using the 100+ kW superchargers?

That may have some effect in the near term, but any real increases in demand will hopefully lead to more investment in the public network, a good thing.

BTW, check out miimura's map of the _currently funded_ DCFCs along transportation corridors in California (does not show many more in metro areas):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VEJLK0-wcAhWV8Q0MirTLULd5mg

Click to expand...

Frankly, if I end up buying a Model III, I intend to do exactly that. I will buy the adapter and use non-Tesla chargers. The reason is exactly to increase demand for the chargers, and thus (hopefully) encourage more of them. It's one more thing I can do to encourage the growth of EVs and their infrastructure.

But I'm certain I'm in the minority. Most will expect to use the (more common and cheaper) supercharger network. If that network overflows, they will push on Tesla to expand it.

I don't know what the big deal of SC's, I really don't, unless you plan on travelling beyond 200 miles per day. I for one charge my leaf at home, and make my rounds based on the mileage remaining. I have NOT once paid for a charge outside of home.... okay once or twice at Target when they offered free charging at their store.

wongfeihong187 said:

I don't know what the big deal of SC's, I really don't, unless you plan on travelling beyond 200 miles per day. I for one charge my leaf at home, and make my rounds based on the mileage remaining. I have NOT once paid for a charge outside of home.... okay once or twice at Target when they offered free charging at their store.

Click to expand...

Do you never travel more than 200 miles in a day?

I go out of town on average 2 or 3 weekends a month. Let's say 30 weekends per year. Almost everywhere I go, each trip is more than 250 miles in each direction, so I would need to charge on the road 60 times per year. Right now, I do that with my PHEV. I would really like to do it in a BEV and ditch gas completely (hence the username).

For others who have only one car, that's an awful lot of renting to do.

I'm with Wongfiehong on this. Drove 54,000 miles in a Focus electric, rarely used public charging. Depended on home and workplace charging 99%

The energy you can count on is the energy you carry with you. Bolt has a lot.

If one needs to go 250 miles each way three times a month, yes I agree, it's a different issue. Better served by a Volt or, if you want a BEV, by a Tesla.

tgreene said:

dan2112 said:

... if the Tesla owners can't charge at the nearest Supercharger they will spill over to the other fast chargers in the area.)

Click to expand...

Really? Do you think that many Tesla owners will pony up $500 each for CHAdeMO adapters and then clog the 45 kW public fast chargers instead of using the 100+ kW superchargers?

That may have some effect in the near term, but any real increases in demand will hopefully lead to more investment in the public network, a good thing.

BTW, check out miimura's map of the _currently funded_ DCFCs along transportation corridors in California (does not show many more in metro areas):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VEJLK0-wcAhWV8Q0MirTLULd5mg

Click to expand...

That map is far from complete - it must be restricted to the govt-funded DCFCs expressly there for the 'electric highway' or whatever they are calling it. NONE of the fast-chargers I have ever used is on that map : Not the 50 kW charger in West San Jose (Campbell, actually), or the one in Santa Clara, or the one in Fremont, or the FOUR in Palo Alto or the FOUR in San Mateo, or the one in Belmont, or the one in Danville, or ... Yes, ALL of them are 50 kW DCFCs, and none of them are EVgo chargers (there are just as many, if not more, of those). (And if I drove >200mi away every other weekend and EVgo DCFCs were conveniently along the route, I'd subscribe to the more expensive plan and charge mainly at EVgo stations all the time - they are ALL OVER the place, at least around me.) All of the ones I mentioned are 'just' off the freeway (generally 1-3 mins of driving once you leave freeway or highway). And I didn't mention any of the 50-ish Amp (20-24 kW) CCS chargers that I've used (just as many) - but those are realistically limited to use for just an extra 30-ish miles or as the emergency backup plan (except the ones located where I shop and spend 45 mins there anyway).

SparkE said:

tgreene said:

dan2112 said:

... if the Tesla owners can't charge at the nearest Supercharger they will spill over to the other fast chargers in the area.)

Click to expand...

Really? Do you think that many Tesla owners will pony up $500 each for CHAdeMO adapters and then clog the 45 kW public fast chargers instead of using the 100+ kW superchargers?

That may have some effect in the near term, but any real increases in demand will hopefully lead to more investment in the public network, a good thing.

BTW, check out miimura's map of the _currently funded_ DCFCs along transportation corridors in California (does not show many more in metro areas):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VEJLK0-wcAhWV8Q0MirTLULd5mg

Click to expand...

That map is far from complete - it must be restricted to the govt-funded DCFCs expressly there for the 'electric highway' or whatever they are calling it. NONE of the fast-chargers I have ever used is on that map : Not the 50 kW charger in West San Jose (Campbell, actually), or the one in Santa Clara, or the one in Fremont, or the FOUR in Palo Alto or the FOUR in San Mateo, or the one in Belmont, or the one in Danville, or ... Yes, ALL of them are 50 kW DCFCs, and none of them are EVgo chargers (there are just as many, if not more, of those). (And if I drove >200mi away every other weekend and EVgo DCFCs were conveniently along the route, I'd subscribe to the more expensive plan and charge mainly at EVgo stations all the time - they are ALL OVER the place, at least around me.) All of the ones I mentioned are 'just' off the freeway (generally 1-3 mins of driving once you leave freeway or highway). And I didn't mention any of the 50-ish Amp (20-24 kW) CCS chargers that I've used (just as many) - but those are realistically limited to use for just an extra 30-ish miles or as the emergency backup plan (except the ones located where I shop and spend 45 mins there anyway).

Click to expand...

YES THAT IS THE POINT: THOSE ARE *** PLANNED *** DCFCs along transportation corridors, currently funded by the CEC.
The current DCFC locations are all known and obvious - no need to post a map for those
... I thought that all of this was clear in the original post; sorry if it was not

tgreene said:

YES THAT IS THE POINT: THOSE ARE *** PLANNED *** DCFCs along transportation corridors, currently funded by the CEC.
The current DCFC locations are all known and obvious - no need to post a map for those
... I thought that all of this was clear in the original post; sorry if it was not

Click to expand...

My biggest concern is it looks like they're not adding enough chargers to each location. Having a charging location is only one part of the story, if you get there and all the plugs are in use then it doesn't do you a whole lot of good. Ideally each charging location would have at least four plugs. Right now many seem to have only two. I suppose we can hope as EVs catch on that the increased demand will result in more chargers being installed at each location.