Charging procedure of Chevy Bolt EV
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GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
I mostly agree, except "Don't charge if you don't need to". That depends. Around here, the public EVSE sit unused for 99% of the time. I always charge if I can just so people see the equipment being used. Also, it provides some revenue to the network providers and hopefully encourages them to keep the EVSEs in good repair. That way they will be there when I do need them.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
Hasnt happened yet. I've never come back to all plugs being used. I rarely see even one other car. When I start to see others using the chargers regularly I will reconsider. For now, a visible note with my phone number will do. If you live in CA and see lots of other EVs charging, I agree with you.michael said:
It's kind of a judgement call. If the equipment is never used, it's likely to go away. But you certainly don't want to block someone that really needs a charge when you don't. Leave a note with your contact info when "opportunity charging"?
When PDX first installed their Level 1 EVSE's in economy parking, I made sure to plug in (2 of 12 were in use) to show some demand. Last time I was there, 10 were in use and I plugged in leaving 1 free (I needed the charge). I don't know how many of the 12 in the other section were in use.
Even with L1, I've always noted over 50% plugged in have fully charged - but no way to move your car when you've caught a plane somewhere.
When PDX first installed their Level 1 EVSE's in economy parking, I made sure to plug in (2 of 12 were in use) to show some demand. Last time I was there, 10 were in use and I plugged in leaving 1 free (I needed the charge). I don't know how many of the 12 in the other section were in use.
Even with L1, I've always noted over 50% plugged in have fully charged - but no way to move your car when you've caught a plane somewhere.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
Airports are tricky because you could be leaving your car there for a week, yet need to have a full charge when you return. In those cases, you'd either want some sort of valet service to move cars around, or an L1 system that is cheap enough to scale with demand.
I'm guessing that with 200+ miles of range, most Bolt drivers will rarely need to use public L1/L2 chargers. It will mostly be charged either at home or QC'd along highway routes. I don't know if cheaper 100-mile EVs are going to still find a niche with the Bolt/Model III on the road, but certainly PHEVs will still sell. And a PHEV never *needs* to charge - they can always burn some gas. So this whole discussion may be moot in a year or two anyway.
I'm guessing that with 200+ miles of range, most Bolt drivers will rarely need to use public L1/L2 chargers. It will mostly be charged either at home or QC'd along highway routes. I don't know if cheaper 100-mile EVs are going to still find a niche with the Bolt/Model III on the road, but certainly PHEVs will still sell. And a PHEV never *needs* to charge - they can always burn some gas. So this whole discussion may be moot in a year or two anyway.
I do see most of the public L2 charging as marginally useful.
L1 is perfect for long term parking (like airports).
L2 is best for workplace and home charging
To be most useful - especially as battery size and range increase - public charging needs to be DCFC. 15 minutes (@50 kW or even 24 kW) will most often get you plenty of range if you're on a short(ish) semi-local trip. For long range/cross country travel, we need to see higher power charging. The current CCS standard allows for 100 kW (Teslas' Superchargers are ~120 kW if only one of the two plugs on a unit is in use, otherwise it is split).
The DCFC option on the Bolt ($750??) will be 50 kW, The upcoming Hyundai IONIQ is ready for 100 kW, and hopefully the Bolt will get that upgrade at some point.
L1's @ PDX
http://www.powerpostevse.com/portla...gest-number-of-ev-chargers-at-us-airport.html
L1 is perfect for long term parking (like airports).
L2 is best for workplace and home charging
To be most useful - especially as battery size and range increase - public charging needs to be DCFC. 15 minutes (@50 kW or even 24 kW) will most often get you plenty of range if you're on a short(ish) semi-local trip. For long range/cross country travel, we need to see higher power charging. The current CCS standard allows for 100 kW (Teslas' Superchargers are ~120 kW if only one of the two plugs on a unit is in use, otherwise it is split).
The DCFC option on the Bolt ($750??) will be 50 kW, The upcoming Hyundai IONIQ is ready for 100 kW, and hopefully the Bolt will get that upgrade at some point.
L1's @ PDX
http://www.powerpostevse.com/portla...gest-number-of-ev-chargers-at-us-airport.html
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
I agree completely, Gary. In fact, I think L2 at home will be less important when you have a car with 200+ miles of range. Most people will be able to recoup their commute overnight on L1. Those that have truly long commutes can upgrade to L2.
I am personally willing to deal with 50kW DC charging, as long as the chargers are available when and where I need them. But I'm more of an outlier because I just want to be completely rid of gasoline.
I really want to see 100+kW DC charging become common. In a 15 minute pit stop, one can gain 20-25kWh in the battery, which is good for another hour of freeway driving. This is still slower than gasoline, but it starts to get interesting. When pumping gas, you have to stand next to your car (or sit inside it if you live in NJ or OR). When charging a car, you can use the restroom, grab a coffee and a snack, and come back to a charged car.
The next increment needs to be about 250kW, IMHO. At that speed, most people will not even notice the charging time, especially if it's combined with a 300-400 mile range. After a few hundred miles, stopping for half an hour isn't such a bad thing.
I am personally willing to deal with 50kW DC charging, as long as the chargers are available when and where I need them. But I'm more of an outlier because I just want to be completely rid of gasoline.
I really want to see 100+kW DC charging become common. In a 15 minute pit stop, one can gain 20-25kWh in the battery, which is good for another hour of freeway driving. This is still slower than gasoline, but it starts to get interesting. When pumping gas, you have to stand next to your car (or sit inside it if you live in NJ or OR). When charging a car, you can use the restroom, grab a coffee and a snack, and come back to a charged car.
The next increment needs to be about 250kW, IMHO. At that speed, most people will not even notice the charging time, especially if it's combined with a 300-400 mile range. After a few hundred miles, stopping for half an hour isn't such a bad thing.
I think most people will want Level 2 in their home, particularly if they are on a TOU plan. Often the cheapest rates are midnight to 6 AM, so @~3mi/hr most commutes will take more than that. Plus if you ever take a long(ish) trip on a Sunday, getting the car back to a full(ish) charge could take days of L1 charging at night.
It's worse in the winter time because you use more battery for a given range and the batteries don't recharge as fast in cold weather.
It's worse in the winter time because you use more battery for a given range and the batteries don't recharge as fast in cold weather.
At my house we have three EV charging spots
L2 6 kW for my Focus Electric
L2 3 kW for one Volt
L1 for the second Volt
The L1 spot charges the Volt overnight no problem
The plan is to replace the Focus with a Bolt, 6 kW will still be plenty. I think there is every chance I will go through three years with the Bolt never bothering to fast charge.
At my workplace, we have 24 3 kW charging stations, four 6 kW charging stations, and a Chademo DCFC. I have only once seen the Chademo in use...it's much easier to plug in to an L2 station and walk into the office than to stand by the DCFC station.
I use about 22 kWh for my round trip commute, so even using the 3 kW stations, I will be able to mostly refill at work, maybe just a little squirt at home
L2 6 kW for my Focus Electric
L2 3 kW for one Volt
L1 for the second Volt
The L1 spot charges the Volt overnight no problem
The plan is to replace the Focus with a Bolt, 6 kW will still be plenty. I think there is every chance I will go through three years with the Bolt never bothering to fast charge.
At my workplace, we have 24 3 kW charging stations, four 6 kW charging stations, and a Chademo DCFC. I have only once seen the Chademo in use...it's much easier to plug in to an L2 station and walk into the office than to stand by the DCFC station.
I use about 22 kWh for my round trip commute, so even using the 3 kW stations, I will be able to mostly refill at work, maybe just a little squirt at home
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
stephen said:
Well, I've listed my reasons. You guys haven't actually offered a valid counter-point yet. Other EVs just aren't common enough in upstate NY to ever arrive to all spots being occupied. When I plug in, 99% of the time all N of N spots are available (N is typically 3-12 chargers per location).
I will continue to plug in whenever I can rather than only when I need to.
If there are really a dozen spots, then sure that's fine. Around here, the common thing to find is one or two charging stations, both occupied, usually fully charged.
Thoughtless people pull into the train station or park and ride, for example, plug in, and go off for the day. Someone comes along needing some juice and they are screwed.
I carry a J1772 extension cord so I just unplug them, double park, and get what I need to continue on. But I'll bet not one EV driver in 100 has an extension cord like that. They are "hosed"
Worse yet are the people who use charging spots like handicapped parking, don't even plug in, just take the spot.
Thoughtless people pull into the train station or park and ride, for example, plug in, and go off for the day. Someone comes along needing some juice and they are screwed.
I carry a J1772 extension cord so I just unplug them, double park, and get what I need to continue on. But I'll bet not one EV driver in 100 has an extension cord like that. They are "hosed"
Worse yet are the people who use charging spots like handicapped parking, don't even plug in, just take the spot.
????michael said:
If they plug in and take the train/bus to work or wherever, you want them to come back in a couple hours and move their car? I don't see that as thoughtless. Some may live in apartments or not have any charging where they live, and public charging is their only option.
michael said:
In Oregon, that is treated the same as an ICE vehicle occupying the spot and is subject to a fine of up to $250.
Do I want them to come back? No. Of course not. I want them to not take up a scarce, shared resource like a charging station. I want them to have some consideration for everyone else in the city who needs a place to charge up.
I don't want them to take their ridiculous Plug-in-Prius, for example, with its stupid AA size batteries, and be selfish so they can save a dollar worth of electricity.
If they can't come back in a few hours, I want them to not use the public charging station.
Would it be OK for someone to pull into a gas station, park in front of a pump, and jump on a train? it's the same idea. Charge up and move on.
I don't want them to take their ridiculous Plug-in-Prius, for example, with its stupid AA size batteries, and be selfish so they can save a dollar worth of electricity.
If they can't come back in a few hours, I want them to not use the public charging station.
Would it be OK for someone to pull into a gas station, park in front of a pump, and jump on a train? it's the same idea. Charge up and move on.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I deliberately stop at destinations with charging, and make sure to plug in, charge, rate the station on plugshare and tell the manager of the establishment how important the charging station was to my choosing to spend money there.
Places that install charging stations keep track of usage, and given how little they are used, and how few people make comments to management, the right thing to do in places like Ontario and NY that have so few EV's is to plug in often and everywhere! Those stations are being tracked, make sure the ones you like stay there. If they aren't used, they might be removed.
Oh, I drive a Tesla, does that matter? Shouldn't. Apparently small battery cars like Prius plug ins shouldn't use charging stations as per previous poster...pardon, all plugs are equal in my eyes. LOL. Sheesh.
Places that install charging stations keep track of usage, and given how little they are used, and how few people make comments to management, the right thing to do in places like Ontario and NY that have so few EV's is to plug in often and everywhere! Those stations are being tracked, make sure the ones you like stay there. If they aren't used, they might be removed.
Oh, I drive a Tesla, does that matter? Shouldn't. Apparently small battery cars like Prius plug ins shouldn't use charging stations as per previous poster...pardon, all plugs are equal in my eyes. LOL. Sheesh.
I totally get the frustration of a BEV pulling up and not having a plug-in spot because of a PHEV.
However, thanks for the great point SmartElectric! Part of the scarcity of charging points is because the general public (including store and commercial property owners) don't think they're necessary or worthwhile. Using them at all opportunities will help increase the 'value' for the property owner and ensure they stay - and perhaps even convince more charging points!
p.s. I thought the 'Smart' in your username was for a Smart ED, but now I realize it's because you're actually really smart
However, thanks for the great point SmartElectric! Part of the scarcity of charging points is because the general public (including store and commercial property owners) don't think they're necessary or worthwhile. Using them at all opportunities will help increase the 'value' for the property owner and ensure they stay - and perhaps even convince more charging points!
p.s. I thought the 'Smart' in your username was for a Smart ED, but now I realize it's because you're actually really smart
NeilBlanchard
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:
How does that work? If you need to recharge at least the mileage you drive for each commute - having a bigger battery doesn't affect anything.
It takes almost 24 hours to charge a 24kWh battery on L1, and to recharge a 60kWh battery, it could take 2 1/2 days. If your commute is a total of 50 miles - it takes the same amount of time to regain that; no matter what the pack size is.
But if you drive anywhere near 200 miles in the Bolt EV - you HAVE to have an L2 at home.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
NeilBlanchard said:
The argument for upgrading from L1 to L2 is often less about the commute and more about the spontaneous evening trips. With a larger battery, you have a buffer for such trips. The key is that these are not every day. As long as you can recoup a little more than your commute overnight, then you can slowly replenish that buffer. When you go on a long trip, you want to QC anyway. Even L2 is too slow.
Certainly a commute of 50 miles (which is longer than most people commute) would begin pushing into the L2 category. If you get 3 miles/kWh, you need >=17kWh overnight. In my experience, that would take maybe 14 hours on L1 (I get about 1.2 kW into the battery on L1, not 1 as you conservatively claim above). That's clearly not going to work. Then again, maybe you can recoup over the weekend. If you use 17kWh every day, that's 85kWh for a week of commuting. But if you can charge for 10 hours/day, you can recoup about 60kWh during the week. The 25kWh deficit gets refilled either over the weekend or with a single QC session.
I hope I am explaining this well. It comes from years of experience with a BEV and coming to understand my driving patterns. I know you have been driving an EV for a while too, so I was a little surprised at your question.
Most people like to keep their EV's at/near a full charge.GetOffYourGas said:
Plus, I'm reasonably sure Chevy will make the same recommendations for the Bolt as the Spark EV:
L1 will not be adequate in many situations to fulfill the above and maintain optimum battery performance. I can't find a link at the moment, but not sure you can charge and heat/cool the battery simultaneously on L1. Note: 8 A is the default L1 charge rate on many EV's, you may need to change that setting if you have a circuit that will support a higher continuous load.
There is no "one size fits all" solution, but if I'm asked, I'll tell people to install a 32A EVSE (if possible). It's what GM recommends and offers the greatest flexibility/usability for the Bolt. Even if you end the weekend with a nearly flat battery, it will be full and ready to go Monday morning (wish the same were true for me
)Another note: if installing a new circuit for an EVSE, seriously consider using 6 ga wire to allow for a bigger EVSE in the future.