Yet Another Comparison: Bolt vs BMW i3 vs Tesla Model s

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alevek

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
45
After only 100 miles in my Bolt (Premier, all options) I'm ready to pas a verdict over the BMW i3 which just came off lease after 2 years and 15000 miles, and my Tesla Model S P85D. Keep in mind the cost of each : Bolt - $43,000, i3 - $53,000, P85D - $132,000 (rounded off $$$).

Spoiler alert! Which would I rather drive when:
Everyday driving: Bolt!
At the drag strip: P85D to blow the doors off my redneck buddies hopped up gassers.
Long distance travel: Airplane. Can't think of a worst thing to do than drive a car a long distance, prefer a root canal.

OK, now for the science behind the results.

The i3 was fun, but some of it's features are just a major pita. The worst is the the skinny wheels. Besides looking stupid, it makes it feel like riding a bike when going over steel bridges or ridges in the road. Besides that, the tires are ridiculously expensive, wear out fast (8,000 mi), and are impossible to find. The stupid coach doors and no rear windows makes rear seat passengers paranoid. The carbon fiber, while a cool technology, actually turns out to be hot when parked in the sun, makes the interior like an oven and takes forever to cool down. The things that I liked better than the Bolt are the rear wheel drive and the seats. Yeah, the interior materials are better, but they better be for an extra $10,000.

The Model S P85D is a 2014 with 25,000 mi. What can I say it's fast! It's also big and driving it around reminds me of my father's Oldsmobile. When I first got it the tech was cool, like the big screen displays and autopilot. The EV one-pedal driving is awesome, although it's not exactly one pedal since you still have to use the brake to come to a full stop, unlike the Bolt and i3, which is really annoying. The autopilot and summon, at first exciting, are now just useless gimmicks to impress friends. The autopilot, Version 1, never delivered the promise for which I got it, to self park on private property. The display doesn't have surround vision promised or implied in the original advertisements. Again, yeah the interior materials are nicer with the Obeche wood, Alcantra headliner, but wtf, they better be for $100,000 more! And still no grab handles or coat hooks! Don't get me started.

OK, why after only 88 miles I can say I like the Bolt better than those two? It's actually fun to drive and the tech blows the other two away. The displays makes the Model S seem like my mother's old computer. Which reveals a problem with making cars that are computers, they will get obsoleted fast by new models. The parking display in the Bolt is awesome, blows the Model S and i3 away. The rearview camera display in the mirror and the ability to select front and rearview cameras display when parking are great. The awesome blind spot display in the side mirrors, regular rear doors with roll down windows blow i3 away. Fold down rear seats with bigger cargo area and tight turn radius makes the Bolt the preferred goto for going to the beach with all sport equipment loaded in the back. Roof racks! Yeah, now can carry those paddleboards! Regular tires that you can actually buy! and wait for it, the latest tech, grab handles and coat hooks. And most important for South Florida, an A/C that actually works, Neither the i3 nor the Model S A/C works as expected. The i3 seemed to have a mind of its own, blowing hot and cold air randomly. The Model S can't seem to sense the actual interior temperature, so have to constantly adjust fan speed manually.

So there you have it, for my average driving of 25 mi/day it's the Bolt all the way. Any body wants to buy a pristine 2014 Model S P85D, driven only occasionally at the drag strip, let me know.
 
alevek said:
OK, now for the science behind the results.

The tires are ridiculously expensive, wear out fast (8,000 mi), and are impossible to find.

Impossible to find...Really? Took me less than 30 seconds.

FrtKUSj.jpg


There are reviews from people with 30K+ miles on their tires.

Is ~$150 per tire "ridiculously" expensive? Seems to me, the tires for the Bolt are about the same price:

svI7zgB.jpg


alevek said:
The stupid coach doors and no rear windows makes rear seat passengers paranoid.

No rear window? You are talking about the i3, right?

yo7nYhy.jpg


alevek said:
The carbon fiber, while a cool technology, actually turns out to be hot when parked in the sun, makes the interior like an oven and takes forever to cool down.

Last time I checked, all cars get hot when parked in the sun. Fortunately, most cars are equipped with air conditioning as standard equpment.

alevek said:
Yeah, the interior materials are better, but they better be for an extra $10,000.

While the MSRP is higher on an i3, it actually costs less to lease an i3 than a Bolt.

Please check your science again. Your results don't add up.
 
oilerlord said:
Is ~$150 per tire "ridiculously" expensive? Seems to me, the tires for the Bolt are about the same price:

svI7zgB.jpg

This is not the OEM Bolt tire. There are three different versions of the Michelin Energy Saver A/S 215/50/17:

90V generic (the one you found), currently $149.97 at Tire Rack
91H Volt OEM, currently $141.97 at Tire Rack
91H Bolt OEM, currently $121.97 (special) at Tire Rack

Be careful when choosing replacement tires if you intend to get the same tires as the OEM ones (with the self-sealing feature). If choosing a different model of tire, be sure to get the correct load rating.

Regarding the price, the OP may have been assuming prices at the BMW dealer, which are probably much higher than at Tire Rack.
 
Cost me $430. for two tires. BMW estimate was $1200. for 4. Took 3 months to find them, even BMW dealer didn't have them.

i3 roof 40 deg hotter in the sun than Bolt roof, scientifically measured. You missed the part that the i3 A/C sucks.

By rear windows I mean real windows that actually go up and down, ever seen one of those?
 
alevek said:
i3 roof 40 deg hotter in the sun than Bolt roof, scientifically measured.

What color was each car? If you had a black i3 and a white Bolt, that may affect the comparison.
 
Thanks for sharing the comparison. I've driven all three and pretty much agree with your conclusion, as I bought the Bolt. I could have bought a 2013 i3 for half the money or a Tesla for the same money, but as you say, the Tesla is a big sedan. We wanted a small, more nimble runabout for the wife's daily driving and the Bolt is a hoot to drive. The used i3 makes more economic sense, as EV technology is changing so rapidly and with Nissan coming along with a new Leaf and Tesla with the Model 3, the Bolt may be so 10 minutes ago before the shiny is gone. However, for today, it's the best all-around.

jack vines
 
OP, just because I'm seriously considering it - how would you compare a used 2013 Tesla S 85 with 27,000 miles, a 50,000 mile warranty, free supercharging for life, and a price of $46K to a new Bolt? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion as a Model S owner.

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1CN8DFP16610

The only part of your review I'd respectfully disagree with is the display design. I find the Bolt garish and the Tesla elegant and restrained. But I suppose that's just personal taste.

Thanks for sharing your review. I researched and drove the I3. Loved the interior to death. Can buy a low-mileage used one here for $15K. Just couldn't deal with the low range and tire issues.
 
>> the Bolt may be so 10 minutes ago before the shiny is gone. However, for today, it's the best

That so much captures how I feel about the Bolt. I think a lot of others on the forum kind of feel the same way. If you don't need "right now", why not wait just a few more months to see what rolls into dealer lots...
 
ScooterCT said:
OP, just because I'm seriously considering it - how would you compare a used 2013 Tesla S 85 with 27,000 miles, a 50,000 mile warranty, free supercharging for life, and a price of $46K to a new Bolt? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion as a Model S owner.

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1CN8DFP16610

The only part of your review I'd respectfully disagree with is the display design. I find the Bolt garish and the Tesla elegant and restrained. But I suppose that's just personal taste.

Thanks for sharing your review. I researched and drove the I3. Loved the interior to death. Can buy a low-mileage used one here for $15K. Just couldn't deal with the low range and tire issues.

Tough to say since a lot depends on personal tastes. For example, it's great that the Model S has free supercharging for life if you intend to take long trips frequently, but if you drive an average of 25 mi/day like I do it has no value. I have free supercharging but have never used it.

If you are mainly going to drive around town, the features on the Bolt like the surround vision for parking and the blind spot indicators in the side mirrors are way more valuable than any feature in the Model S. For just driving to the beach or camping, you don't want to leave your Model S exposed in those situations, plus the ability to use roof racks (which you wouldn't want if driving long distances).

Also to consider are insurance cost and potential cost of repairs. You may have to wait months for a part on the Model S as well as being able to find a repair shop.

Sorry if this makes it even more confusing.
 
Thanks - that's really useful feedback. I have wondered a lot how Tesla's service infrastructure will grow to meet the Model 3 demand. And I live in one of the states (CT) that is waging war on Telsa, which doesn't make buying one any easier.

Good old USA. As long as car dealers keep stuffing money into the pockets of CT politicians, restraint of trade remains an acceptable policy.
 
I think what the thread author may have meant is that the rear windows don't roll down, which is a pain and causes negative pressure when riding with both front windows down. The new model has a sunroof option in the U.S. that helps with this though. The suicide doors are a pain with rear passengers in tight parking spots.

The top has a carbon fiber top, which does get hot, but I put a sunshade in the huge windshield which does help. I don't notice that it gets hotter than other cars I've owned and the carbon fiber should actually help because it doesn't conduct heat as much as steel. I love the fact that the car's frame and body are carbon fiber, aluminum, and plastic. Most of my cars have rusted out from the salty wintery Michigan roads so a car that doesn't rust out is a big plus.

The tires are goofy and there is only one brand available in summers, two for winters. My rear tires were like slicks after about 23k miles, but I drove the shit out of it most of the time because it's just too fun. Others have reported longer tread life but still shorter than other tires. The skinny width does make driving on grooved pavement kind of difficult, especially with newer tires. I did have to wait a few months for my local tire shop to get a full set for me too. The turning radius is crazy tight on the car, the tall skinny tires help with that.

I'm curious how the Bolt will drive compared to the i3 because after driving again with RWD, I love it. It makes more sense for performance and smooth driving and is manageable in the snow if you have good tires and drive with caution. I'll consider a Bolt when my lease is up but it's a waiting game to test drive and compare one at this point, not scheduled to arrive in MI until September.
 
Agree. True I prefer the rear wheel drive of the i3, but the Bolt is so much smoother than the i3 that it makes up for the feel of FWD. I measured the temperature of the carbon fiber roof vs a metal roof and it was about 40 deg hotter. The i3 interior was 20 deg hotter than similar size car. Also the wide dash emits heat way longer than the Bolt dash. In the garage the i3 took forever to cool down. The color was black so that didn't help for sure. The A/C in the i3 was not effective, the Bolt's is much better.
 
alevek said:
Agree. True I prefer the rear wheel drive of the i3, but the Bolt is so much smoother than the i3 that it makes up for the feel of FWD. I measured the temperature of the carbon fiber roof vs a metal roof and it was about 40 deg hotter. The i3 interior was 20 deg hotter than similar size car. Also the wide dash emits heat way longer than the Bolt dash. In the garage the i3 took forever to cool down. The color was black so that didn't help for sure. The A/C in the i3 was not effective, the Bolt's is much better.
My i3 is white with the typical black areas, including the common dark CF roof, so I'm sure mine stays cooler than the true black version.

Like I stated, I'll be curious to experience the Bolt on a test drive. I drove a LEAF before leasing the i3 and didn't like the heavy torque on a FWD car at all. Not sure what kind of traction control the LEAF has but turning onto an expressway onramp and giving it some heavy acceleration caused the front tires to spin and slide a little. Curious about comparing the smooth ride too because I can't feel a thing when driving the i3, other than the suspension being a little harsh over bumps.
 
It's natural to want the best of everything; however GM chose to go with FWD and leave in the torque steer. I much prefer the feel of the i3, but the price, power and range of the Bolt.

I've been an ICE guy for sixty years, but each time I drive an EV, it's just a reinforcement of how the ICE day is done. Steam engines, race horses, crew rowing; all nice hobbies, but so centuries ago.

jack vines
 
alevek said:
For just driving to the beach or camping, you don't want to leave your Model S exposed in those situations, plus the ability to use roof racks (which you wouldn't want if driving long distances).

The Tesla Model S has provision for roof rack installation, but only with the panoramic roof option.
 
boltage said:
alevek said:
For just driving to the beach or camping, you don't want to leave your Model S exposed in those situations, plus the ability to use roof racks (which you wouldn't want if driving long distances).

The Tesla Model S has provision for roof rack installation, but only with the panoramic roof option.

There's no way I'd consider putting a roof rack on $142,000 P85D. Roof rack goes on the Bolt.
 
ScooterCT said:
>> the Bolt may be so 10 minutes ago before the shiny is gone. However, for today, it's the best

That so much captures how I feel about the Bolt. I think a lot of others on the forum kind of feel the same way. If you don't need "right now", why not wait just a few more months to see what rolls into dealer lots...

I was thinking the same thing but for me, that wait would be 3 or more years. I would love for there to be an affordable electric suv but, in the absence of that, I'll gladly go pick up my Bolt hopefully in the next couple of days. We're still waiting here in Texas. It will be my first electric vehicle. I'm very excited. I think I have one more tank of gas to buy?!?!
 
alevek said:
You'll love the freedom from gas! I only charge up once a week!

Picked up the car Saturday afternoon and I haven't been able to wipe the smile off my face since?!?! Everyone that has seen the car has been impressed. I got rid of an 06 Range Rover Sport Supercharged. I won't miss those weekly $50+ trips to the gas station (or the less than 15 mpg). Not gonna lie, it took some time getting used to the quiet. Now I'm wondering if I can ever go back?!?! If you see a red bolt on the road in the DFW area, blow your horn and wave at me. I'll wave back.
 
Congrats!

I think the vast majority of new EV owners will agree: Once you go EV, you can never go back to ICE.

Which makes me wonder: Has anyone heard of anyone saying "had an EV for three years, hated the driving experience, went back to my gas burner"?
 
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