2017 Nissan Leaf Hits Back At Chevrolet Bolt

I would stay with Nissan if they had rolled out a 60 kWh car, even waited until January, but it didn't happen. That makes Bolt my best option for my next 3 year lease. That'll get me to the fall of 2020 and then there should be improved choices.

GetOffYourGas said:

joe said:

I don't get why they are still pushing chademo...

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Look at the CHAdeMO infrastructure in Japan. Now consider a car that can travel 150 miles on a charge (i.e. the 2018 Leaf). I think your answer is pretty self-explanatory. The Leaf is a world car, not just for the US.

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The sensible thing would be to deliver the car with a CHAdeMO port for Japan and a CCS port for everywhere else. Or perhaps just make the CCS an additional, optional port.

SeanNelson said:

GetOffYourGas said:

joe said:

I don't get why they are still pushing chademo...

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Look at the CHAdeMO infrastructure in Japan. Now consider a car that can travel 150 miles on a charge (i.e. the 2018 Leaf). I think your answer is pretty self-explanatory. The Leaf is a world car, not just for the US.

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The sensible thing would be to deliver the car with a CHAdeMO port for Japan and a CCS port for everywhere else. Or perhaps just make the CCS an additional, optional port.

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Yes it would. Frankly, I would pay an extra $750 (the price of CCS on the Bolt) to add CCS on top of CHAdeMO on a Leaf (heaven knows there is room for the connector inside that gaping charge port door). As a consumer, that would be a great way to hedge your bets. But Nissan will never offer that.

The two protocols are very different - it is not just a matter of installing a 2nd port. At a minimum, new S/W would be required, and possibly other additional H/W to get it to work.

SparkE said:

The two protocols are very different - it is not just a matter of installing a 2nd port. At a minimum, new S/W would be required, and possibly other additional H/W to get it to work.

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Software is a one-time development cost, and any additional hardware to support dual standards is not likely to be very significant compared to what's already there to support 120/220V AC and DC fast charging.

When in North America, use the North American charging standard - that's how I think it should be done.

GetOffYourGas said:

A corollary - for years in the cellular industry, there were two competing technologies. AT&T et. al. used GSM and later UMTS. Verizon et. al. used CDMA2000. Today, those networks still exist as 2G/3G signals. But LTE (4G) has come along and ended the battle. Today everyone (AT&T, Verizon, et. al.) use LTE for their 4G service.

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However, the phones for AT&T / T-Mobile use (with SIM cards) and Verizon / Sprint use (without SIM cards) are still different (even beyond network locking and carrier-specific apps).

When in North America, use the North American charging standard - that's how I think it should be done.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Chademo in wide use here before the SAE combo?

LeftieBiker said:

When in North America, use the North American charging standard - that's how I think it should be done.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Chademo in wide use here before the SAE combo?

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I'm not sure, but I don't really think it matters. Betamax came before VHS, but the latter ultimately became the de facto standard.

J1772 and CCS are now being adopted by virtually every auto maker who sells in North America except Nissan and Tesla, so it's pretty clear to me that it's won the battle by virtue of ubiquity.

I know that you want to just declare Victory for SAE Combo, but Nissan and Tesla are the leaders in EV sales and prestige, respectively. I see no problem with having both plugs at QC stations.

LeftieBiker said:

I know that you want to just declare Victory for SAE Combo, but Nissan and Tesla are the leaders in EV sales and prestige, respectively. I see no problem with having both plugs at QC stations.

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Absolutely - the stations need to support all the vehicles out there. I'm just saying that Nissan's 2nd generation Leaf ought to have a CCS socket for its North American models - even if only as an option.

SeanNelson said:

LeftieBiker said:

I know that you want to just declare Victory for SAE Combo, but Nissan and Tesla are the leaders in EV sales and prestige, respectively. I see no problem with having both plugs at QC stations.

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Absolutely - the stations need to support all the vehicles out there. I'm just saying that Nissan's 2nd generation Leaf ought to have a CCS socket for its North American models - even if only as an option.

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There's enough room under the hatch for both CHAdeMO and CCS and it would give Nissan a selling point.

As it stands, you have Chademo (screw the annoying capitalization!) in most places with QC stations, and SAE Combo stations mainly at GM and VW dealerships that sell their respective EVs, along with those same stations. Few Nissan drivers will want to seek out those non-Nissan dealerships to charge, so I see little advantage in Leafs having both QC ports. You'd be able to use an available SAE Combo cable if the Chademo one wasn't available, and that's about it. That would also argue for putting Chademo ports on Bolts.

I suppose, but there's no room for it like under a Leaf hatch. The Leaf's L2 inlet could accommodate a CCS. But it's no big deal, infrastructure should come faster after 2018 as most new EVs should be 60 kWh or better, adoption will pick up and create more demand for QC.