~450 Bolt EV's in Stock

[JupiterMoon]

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right?

Unless Nissan has something up their sleeve there won't be anything else available for a similar price for the better part of a year. And when they do come out then yes, they too will be interesting to a much wider market than the 100-mile class of EVs were.

The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark...

That's based on the very optimistic NDEC testing cycle. I'm withholding judgement on the Zoe until we start to get some reports of range in the real world.

The Zoe has an NEDC range of 250 miles and the Ampera-E (European Bolt) has an NEDC range of 500 km/ 310 miles.

Don't think I'll wait for it.

No one is saying you have to wait for it. Waiting for it won't matter anyway because you won't get it States side. The point is it's an EV with substantial range. That's what it's all about. To encourage such cars like the Zoe and not idiotic concepts like Faraday and Lucid.

 

[SparkE]

Unless Nissan has something up their sleeve there won't be anything else available for a similar price for the better part of a year. And when they do come out then yes, they too will be interesting to a much wider market than the 100-mile class of EVs were.

That's based on the very optimistic NDEC testing cycle. I'm withholding judgement on the Zoe until we start to get some reports of range in the real world.

The Zoe has an NEDC range of 250 miles and the Ampera-E (European Bolt) has an NEDC range of 500 km/ 310 miles.

Don't think I'll wait for it.

No one is saying you have to wait for it. Waiting for it won't matter anyway because you won't get it States side. The point is it's an EV with substantial range. That's what it's all about. To encourage such cars like the Zoe and not idiotic concepts like Faraday and Lucid.

1) It's 'stateside', not 'states side'

2) There are readers here from all over, not just the U.S. (and even people from that exotic, far-away place - CANADA!)

3) The NDEC cycle shouldn't be used to compare mileage to a different vehicle's EPA mileage rating. Regardless of whether the estimates are ' optimistic ' or not, the tests are completely different (and the NDE is even more 'wildly optimistic' than the EPA cycle). I would be shocked if the Zoe would even REACH 200 mi using the EPA tests, let alone MORE than 200.

4) There have been rumors for quite a while that Nissan might offer a re-branded Zoe in the U.S. market. (Of course, that would entail waiting.) Nissan and Renault (long-time partners) will also be working on a common EV platform, to share development costs across more vehicles. Probably won't be out until 2018 or later, though.

 

[SparkE]

And concerning :

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right?

At the moment, the Bolt and the Tesla X and Tesla S are the only three high volume vehicles ( 20K units or more a year) with a range over 200 miles that I am aware of that are currently available *anywhere*. The Zoe has a range of *close to* (but under) 200 miles (based on Renault's comments). (The Zoe is darn close, in both mileage and in units. I think that the 3-year production run on the 'old' Zoe was around 50,000K units.) Most BEVs have production runs in the low thousands per year. exceptions being (the previously stated) Teslas and Zoe, and the LEAF and i3 (the latter two having a much lower range).

Two years from now there should be quite a few more *high volume* longer-range vehicles - but NOW (and in the very near future, say 6 months) there's not much choice.

 

[oilerlord]

2) There are readers here from all over, not just the U.S. (and even people from that exotic, far-away place - CANADA!)

I can see Russia from my house!

 

[SeanNelson]

The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark...

That's based on the very optimistic NDEC testing cycle. I'm withholding judgement on the Zoe until we start to get some reports of range in the real world.

Frankly all testing cycles are optimistic. We'll have to see what people get with the Bolt, Zoe, etc.

I've exceed the EPA rating of all the cars I've driven, so the EPA cycle doesn't seem optimistic to me. It will for lead-footed drivers, of course, but I think it's certainly a lot more realistic than the NDEC rating.

 

[WetEV]

I can see Russia from my house!

While Saskatchewan looks like Russia I assure you it is not.

 

[Nagorak]

Frankly all testing cycles are optimistic. We'll have to see what people get with the Bolt, Zoe, etc.

I don't really agree with this. I easily exceeded the EV range of the Volt, despite living in a non-flat area. I think the EV range is pretty darn accurate. The EPA has really tightened up the MPG/MPGe ratings over the last few years. They used to be wildly optimistic. Now they should be pretty accurate provided you drive in a normal fashion. If you race to every stop light and screech to a halt, and then gun it when the light turns green like it's a drag race, then, yes, you'll get less than the rated amount.

 

[oilerlord]

I don't really agree with this. I easily exceeded the EV range of the Volt, despite living in a non-flat area. I think the EV range is pretty darn accurate. The EPA has really tightened up the MPG/MPGe ratings over the last few years. They used to be wildly optimistic. Now they should be pretty accurate provided you drive in a normal fashion. If you race to every stop light and screech to a halt, and then gun it when the light turns green like it's a drag race, then, yes, you'll get less than the rated amount.

That depends on your definition of "normal". Joe Public drives 70 on the freeway, not 55 - so in real world, and based on the Bolt's mediocre (0.32) aerodynamics, the EPA number is optimistic. A couple of guys on this board along with a Car & Driver review have reported 160 mile range on the highway - that's a long way off from 238 miles. For those that live in northern states, they may have difficulty getting 120 miles depending on how cold it is.

Last month when it was really cold (-15F) where I live, I struggled to achieve HALF of my car's EPA range (and yes, I know how to hypermile). I can easily beat the EPA number with every other car I've owned (even in winter), but that isn't always possible when I drive my EV at "normal" freeway speed, and/or when the temperature dips below freezing. There isn't an EV on the road that is immune to range loss in cold temperatures. Here's a chart for the Leaf:

 

[Nagorak]

I don't really agree with this. I easily exceeded the EV range of the Volt, despite living in a non-flat area. I think the EV range is pretty darn accurate. The EPA has really tightened up the MPG/MPGe ratings over the last few years. They used to be wildly optimistic. Now they should be pretty accurate provided you drive in a normal fashion. If you race to every stop light and screech to a halt, and then gun it when the light turns green like it's a drag race, then, yes, you'll get less than the rated amount.

That depends on your definition of "normal". Joe Public drives 70 on the freeway, not 55 - so in real world, and based on the Bolt's mediocre (0.32) aerodynamics, the EPA number is optimistic. A couple of guys on this board along with a Car & Driver review have reported 160 mile range on the highway - that's a long way off from 238 miles. For those that live in northern states, they may have difficulty getting 120 miles depending on how cold it is.

Last month when it was really cold (-15F) where I live, I struggled to achieve HALF of my car's EPA range (and yes, I know how to hypermile). I can easily beat the EPA number with every other car I've owned (even in winter), but that isn't always possible when I drive my EV at "normal" freeway speed, and/or when the temperature dips below freezing. There isn't an EV on the road that is immune to range loss in cold temperatures. Here's a chart for the Leaf:

Well, everything depends on the conditions. I don't think the EPA test cycle is run in extremely cold conditions. But I you're right to point out that everything is relative. Up north for much of the year you'll probably do worse than the rated range and the discrepancy will be worse for EVs than ICEs because you don't have a bunch of waste heat to divert to heating the cabin.

I still think the current EPA numbers are fairly accurate for conditions similar to the test conditions. It's no longer necessary to drive 55 to get the current EPA numbers in my experience, and you can get them even in slightly less than ideal conditions. The numbers in the 00s required that sort of driving but after the 08 and 16 revisions that's no longer the case.

Anyway it could all be moot because the way things are currently going who knows if we'll even have fuel economy numbers next year.

 

[oilerlord]

[

I still think the current EPA numbers are fairly accurate for conditions similar to the test conditions. It's no longer necessary to drive 55 to get the current EPA numbers in my experience, and you can get them even in slightly less than ideal conditions.

EPA range testing cycles, and how they apply to EV's leave a lot to be desired. This doesn't imply that GM, NIssan, or Tesla is doing anything wrong, just that the testing parameters yield results for EV's that are overly optimistic. Go drive a Bolt above 60 MPH on the freeway, and turn the heater on. You won't get anything close to 200 miles. I can drive 70 in my Jetta, regardless of the outside temperature, with the heater on maximum, and beat the EPA number every time.

 

[JupiterMoon]

[

I still think the current EPA numbers are fairly accurate for conditions similar to the test conditions. It's no longer necessary to drive 55 to get the current EPA numbers in my experience, and you can get them even in slightly less than ideal conditions.

EPA range testing cycles, and how they apply to EV's leave a lot to be desired. This doesn't imply that GM, NIssan, or Tesla is doing anything wrong, just that the testing parameters yield results for EV's that are overly optimistic. Go drive a Bolt above 60 MPH on the freeway, and turn the heater on. You won't get anything close to 200 miles. I can drive 70 in my Jetta, regardless of the outside temperature, with the heater on maximum, and beat the EPA number every time.

The more efficient something is, the more variations in performance there are. When you have something perform at vastly more efficient level than an IC vehicle, even minor changes in conditions can throw off the performance. ICEs are so inefficient and wasteful in comparison that any additional condition changes (environmental, bad fuel, crappy wiring, etc) don't cause as much performance degradation. "It can't much worse" is a good adage to have with ICEs.

 

[oilerlord]

ICEs are so inefficient and wasteful in comparison that any additional condition changes (environmental, bad fuel, crappy wiring, etc) don't cause as much performance degradation. "It can't much worse" is a good adage to have with ICEs.

But even with all that, EPA estimates are more or less accurate with ICEV's, the point being Joe Public can drive their gas & diesel cars without hypermiling, and with heat / AC turned on, and usually achieve the EPA number. Getting 160 miles of range (or less) in any car that is EPA rated for over 200 - is a big miss, and will upset a lot of first time BEV drivers.

The combined 238 miles of range assumes a driving style of about 4 miles per kWh, and conservative use of the Bolt's HVAC. That's a big ask for a lot of people,

 

[JupiterMoon]

ICEs are so inefficient and wasteful in comparison that any additional condition changes (environmental, bad fuel, crappy wiring, etc) don't cause as much performance degradation. "It can't much worse" is a good adage to have with ICEs.

But even with all that, EPA estimates are more or less accurate with ICEV's, the point being Joe Public can drive their gas & diesel cars without hypermiling, and with heat / AC turned on, and usually achieve the EPA number. Getting 160 miles of range (or less) in any car that is EPA rated for over 200 - is a big miss, and will upset a lot of first time BEV drivers.

The combined 238 miles of range assumes a driving style of about 4 miles per kWh, and conservative use of the Bolt's HVAC. That's a big ask for a lot of people,

Yes they are close because there is so much inefficiency in an ICE that even an awful test won't sway the values much. EVs are just far more sensitive to range fluctuations because of such high operational efficiency.