buying leasing bolt in Southern California

[Dddunit]

Was hoping to get input on those that have already purchased. Some questions for you guys.

1) which dealerships in southern california do you recommend. Which ones give the best deal?

2) Is there a different MSRP for lease vs purchase. One dealership said there was, was a bit confused by this

3) For a purchase assuming you qualify for the full credit...do you get $2500 CA rebate AND up to &7500 federal tax credit? One dealership said you only get the 7500 on a purchase and only 2500 on a lease

4) When do you guys think the prices might go down? I feel there is no good lease deal and seems the rebates/ tax credit are not guaranteed or later may be gone. Feel the prices are a bit inflated as they are banking on demand...although one dealership said they have too many on the lot and last months sales were down.

Thanks guys

 

[LeftieBiker]

I can't answer all of that, but this I can tell you: if you can qualify for the full $7500 Federal credit, buy! The leases do only give you $2500 of the credit, and they are pretty awful right now. (GM and their fans claim that raising the residual by $5k saves the lessee some money, but it isn't much, and this makes it much worse if you want to buy the car later.) The MSRP should be the same for both leasing and buying. The only good reasons to lease are: not qualifying for the full tax credit, and not wanting to keep a first year production GM car.

 

[ssspinball]

Don't listen to the poster above. I'd estimate EVs have has 95% leases for a very good reason: They (other than Tesla) have so far had TERRIBLE resale value, even excluding the $7500 rebate. That is by far the biggest reason to lease. And the tech is changing by leaps and bounds every 2 years.

 

[Nagorak]

The MSRP is the same, however the leasing company collects the Federal tax credit and right now GM is only passing part of it along. So, in effect the purchase price is higher with a lease. HOWEVER, with a lease you mostly pay for the amount of depreciation that occurs on the vehicle (it's more complex than that, but let's keep it simple). The residual (value at end of the lease) is currently set to about 60% of the purchase price, and some make the argument that based on previous EV depreciation rates that is actually a generous level. That results in a lower monthly payment if you lease because the depreciation is lower than it otherwise would be. Others debate this inflated residual theory and arguments can be made either way.

One thing that's fairly clear is you should only buy if you:

1) Have enough tax liability that you can use the whole Federal tax credit. The tax credit is use it or lose it and it can't be carried forward, so if you pay less than $7500 in tax, the rest is lost.
2) Actually plan to keep the car for at least 8 years. If you only want to hold a short time then the lease is almost certainly the better option.
3) Are confident the battery will hold up decently so you still have good range 8-10 years down the road. (In my opinion this is less of an issue for the Bolt since it starts out with pretty generous range.)

On the EV credits: If you buy you get the Federal tax credit, subject to the caveats listed above. If you lease, the leasing company gets it. Either way you get the CA rebate.

In southern California Rydell Chevrolet seems to currently be offering the best deals.

 

[Dddunit]

seems lease is the way to go as you guys mentioned.

It just seems the dealers are keeping the prices high thinking the demand is really high. I just wish the federal tax credit is applied toward the lease. It's just a matter of time till there are better lease options.

What do you guys think the ideal msrp, down payment, monthly payment, money factor, apr is for a bolt lt with dc fast charger?

 

[kofther]

I just picked my Bolt Premiere up on Monday at Community Chevrolet in Burbank. Was really happy with the sales person and the dealer. Rydell Chevrolet was also a good dealership (the sales folks do not work on commission) but Burbank was a lot closer. I was happy with the deal I got.

The CA Rebate is now based on tax filing status and income. Here is the table.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility

Hope this helps.
- kof

 

[sundar]

I got quote for Bolt Premier(orange color) for $310 per month/12000 miles/36 months/$3000 total down including one instalment etc.

Is this good deal?

 

[LeftieBiker]

The MSRP is the same, however the leasing company collects the Federal tax credit and right now GM is only passing part of it along. So, in effect the purchase price is higher with a lease. HOWEVER, with a lease you mostly pay for the amount of depreciation that occurs on the vehicle (it's more complex than that, but let's keep it simple). The residual (value at end of the lease) is currently set to about 60% of the purchase price, and some make the argument that based on previous EV depreciation rates that is actually a generous level. That results in a lower monthly payment if you lease because the depreciation is lower than it otherwise would be. Others debate this inflated residual theory and arguments can be made either way.

One thing that's fairly clear is you should only buy if you:

1) Have enough tax liability that you can use the whole Federal tax credit. The tax credit is use it or lose it and it can't be carried forward, so if you pay less than $7500 in tax, the rest is lost.
2) Actually plan to keep the car for at least 8 years. If you only want to hold a short time then the lease is almost certainly the better option.
3) Are confident the battery will hold up decently so you still have good range 8-10 years down the road. (In my opinion this is less of an issue for the Bolt since it starts out with pretty generous range.)

On the EV credits: If you buy you get the Federal tax credit, subject to the caveats listed above. If you lease, the leasing company gets it. Either way you get the CA rebate.

In southern California Rydell Chevrolet seems to currently be offering the best deals.

Good post. It needs to be mentioned, though, that if you're thinking about buying the car when the lease ends, it will be extremely painful with the current leases. GM takes $5k of the Federal tax credit and then adds $5000 onto the residual. It's like stealing $5k from you and then telling you it will cost you an extra $5k to buy it back. So DO NOT LEASE IF YOU WANT TO OWN A BOLT. If ownership is your eventual plan, and you can't use the tax credit to purchase an EV, wait for the Leaf 2, with its likely 33% residual and likely full application of the $7500 tax credit to the lease. Or try the Ioniq, if 124 miles is enough range. Maybe GM will offer residual discounts, but that's a hefty wager to make...

 

[Schnort]

They're not stealing from you.

At the end of the lease, you don't HAVE to buy it at the agreed upon residual. You can tell them to drop the price to market, or go pound sand. They'll usually drop the price to market because they don't want to have to recondition the car for resale at the same price they could sell it to you anyways.

Either way, at the end of your lease, you can buy a Bolt at market price (either yours or another on the open market), so it's irrelevant what YOUR lease has as its residual, except in how it affects your payment.

 

[Dddunit]

http://www.dailynews.com/environment-and-nature/20170401/why-the-chevrolet-bolt-238-mile-all-electric-car-is-off-to-a-sluggish-sales-start

I wonder if this is true and if so if we will start seeing more reasonable deals for lease and purchase

 

[cyaopec]

The real deals come when the 2018 models will begin to roll in. You'll have to settle for a dull color, no options other than DCFC. But if a base Bolt is what you're after I bet you can get one close to 30k before tax rebates during the model year change over. That would take it to 20k, which is a pretty good deal.

 

[LeftieBiker]

They're not stealing from you.

At the end of the lease, you don't HAVE to buy it at the agreed upon residual.

They are stealing from you IF you decide to buy. That's pretty much what I wrote, but I'll happily rephrase it to this. ;-)

 

[BarfOMatic]

They're not stealing from you.

At the end of the lease, you don't HAVE to buy it at the agreed upon residual.

They are stealing from you IF you decide to buy. That's pretty much what I wrote, but I'll happily rephrase it to this. ;-)

I don't agree. Not only do you not have to buy it, you don't have to buy it at the agreed upon residual price. Many, MANY LEAF owners have bought their vehicles at a price much lower than the residual (from the dealer/finance co) - they re-negotiate.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't agree. Not only do you not have to buy it, you don't have to buy it at the agreed upon residual price. Many, MANY LEAF owners have bought their vehicles at a price much lower than the residual (from the dealer/finance co) - they re-negotiate.

The Leaf situation is very unusual, and wasn't even the case for Leafs at first. If I had wanted to buy my Leaf when my 2 year lease originally ended, it would have cost me something like $19k - for a car worth maybe $13k. It would be a mistake to count on GM emulating Nissan's actions exactly. As for not having to buy the car, that's true. I'm puzzled why some of you can't seem to grasp the idea of 'conditional theft'. As in 'GM will only force you to pay them money that they should have passed on to you, IF you try to buy the car when the lease ends'. Think of it as similar to "That thief will only rob you IF you walk down that alley."

 

[DucRider]

I don't agree. Not only do you not have to buy it, you don't have to buy it at the agreed upon residual price. Many, MANY LEAF owners have bought their vehicles at a price much lower than the residual (from the dealer/finance co) - they re-negotiate.

The Leaf situation is very unusual, and wasn't even the case for Leafs at first. If I had wanted to buy my Leaf when my 2 year lease originally ended, it would have cost me something like $19k - for a car worth maybe $13k. It would be a mistake to count on GM emulating Nissan's actions exactly. As for not having to buy the car, that's true. I'm puzzled why some of you can't seem to grasp the idea of 'conditional theft'. As in 'GM will only force you to pay them money that they should have passed on to you, IF you try to buy the car when the lease ends'. Think of it as similar to "That thief will only rob you IF you walk down that alley."

If the real value is significantly less than the residual (pretty much a guarantee), there will be many, many used Bolts to choose from at market price.
If buying "your" car is worth the extra $6K (or whatever), by all means go for it. Anyone that is signing a lease today KNOWS (or at least should) that the residual will be greater than the car is actually worth. No theft, conditional or otherwise. A lease is not designed to be a means to purchase a car you otherwise could not afford (because of tax credit or whatever). It is designed to offer the lowest possible monthly payment, and GM Financial is using the ENTIRE $7500 (and then some) to do just that.
Don't like the deal, don't sign.
GM Financial is not the only auto lease company out there. Others will offer you a realistic residual and pass on the entire $7500 as a CCR. Your payments will be higher than with GM Financial - but the residual will be closer to real market value.

 

[LeftieBiker]

We've been around this block before, of course. You know my rebuttals to all of your points. So I'll just say again: don't lease a Bolt that you may want to own. If you want a 200 mile EV that you can lease and then buy, collecting the whole $7500 federal credit as part of the down payment and then still be able to buy the car for market value, wait for Leaf 2. Leaf leases are now designed to enable purchase when the lease ends. If you want to rent a peppy EV for three years and be rid of it, lease a Bolt.

 

[DucRider]

We've been around this block before, of course. You know my rebuttals to all of your points. So I'll just say again: don't lease a Bolt that you may want to own. If you want a 200 mile EV that you can lease and then buy, collecting the whole $7500 federal credit as part of the down payment and then still be able to buy the car for market value, wait for Leaf 2. Leaf leases are now designed to enable purchase when the lease ends. If you want to rent a peppy EV for three years and be rid of it, lease a Bolt.

You are privy to the leasing/pricing information on the LEAF 2 and know for a fact that the lease deal will be stuctured with the $7500 taken as a CCR (and not used in other ways to reduce the monthly payment)?
And that the residual value agreed upon when signing the lease will be no less than the true market value of the LEAF 2 in 2020/2021?

Where do you buy your crystal balls?
Your statements about LEAF 2 leases are pure speculation.

Don't lease ANY EV you want to own. Getting into a current LEAF SV lease will leave you with a residual of $10,500 which is almost certainly more than the car will be worth in 2020. You will be able to buy a used one for less - the exact same situation as with the Bolt.

 

[WetEV]

Don't lease ANY EV you want to own. Getting into a current LEAF SV lease will leave you with a residual of $10,500 which is almost certainly more than the car will be worth in 2020. You will be able to buy a used one for less - the exact same situation as with the Bolt.

However, suppose you are retired, and pay little or no income tax.

Buying a Leaf SV will cost more than leasing unless the residual is more than $7,500 more than the market value at the end of the lease, as you can't take the tax credit.

 

[michael]

We've been around this block before, of course. You know my rebuttals to all of your points. So I'll just say again: don't lease a Bolt that you may want to own. If you want a 200 mile EV that you can lease and then buy, collecting the whole $7500 federal credit as part of the down payment and then still be able to buy the car for market value, wait for Leaf 2. Leaf leases are now designed to enable purchase when the lease ends. If you want to rent a peppy EV for three years and be rid of it, lease a Bolt.

You are privy to the leasing/pricing information on the LEAF 2 and know for a fact that the lease deal will be stuctured with the $7500 taken as a CCR (and not used in other ways to reduce the monthly payment)?
And that the residual value agreed upon when signing the lease will be no less than the true market value of the LEAF 2 in 2020/2021?

Where do you buy your crystal balls?
Your statements about LEAF 2 leases are pure speculation.

Don't lease ANY EV you want to own. Getting into a current LEAF SV lease will leave you with a residual of $10,500 which is almost certainly more than the car will be worth in 2020. You will be able to buy a used one for less - the exact same situation as with the Bolt.

Ford applied the entire $7500 as a CCR on my Focus. And even so at the end of the lease the car was worth far less than the residual so there was no thought of buying the car.

However, I did get stuck with about $700 on sales tax on the CCR that I would not have paid had they used the $7500 to inflate the residual.

On balance, it doesn't make a great deal of difference which way the money is applied provided that it is applied fairly (i.e., either to CCR or to residual) and has the effect of reducing the monthly payment by about $200

 

[LeftieBiker]

Getting into a current LEAF SV lease will leave you with a residual of $10,500 which is almost certainly more than the car will be worth in 2020. You will be able to buy a used one for less - the exact same situation as with the Bolt.

No, a Leaf costing $14k to buy would be a similar situation. Most people will jump at the chance to buy an EV they have driven since new for $10,500, as long as the range is enough for them. I know I will. And no, I don't have specific details from Nissan. They have, however, promised to compete with the Bolt on price (since range will likely be less) and I have stated the obvious, established way to do that.