DC fast charger

[TimBolt]

Hey Tim,

Found this funny (I only read it because it was requoted):

"Don't take this the wrong way, Tim, but anyone who gets the DCFC option and then recommends to someone else not to get it, his opinion is worthless!"

Well, at least he told you not to take it the "wrong" way...which begs the question: Exactly what is the right way to take it? Perhaps it was a compliment.



Good for a laugh, but way too soon to take the guy off my ignore list.

This is just a car forum, so it's no big deal one way or another.

I noticed you have a TDI. I just sold my 2010 Jetta wagon back to VW, but it was a great car. I couldn't pass-up their offer, $17.5k for a seven year old car that cost $26k new. I miss rowing my own gears, but one pedal driving is fun too.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, Michael, but recognizing that someone else's situation may be different from his does not invalidate Tim's opinion.

Tim has an opinion, but he is the wrong person to have an opinion of quality to someone asking the question on whether to purchase/lease a Bolt EV without a DCFC.

Why? Tim purchased a Bolt EV with a DCFC!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm sorry, Michael, but recognizing that someone else's situation may be different from his does not invalidate Tim's opinion.

Tim has an opinion, but he is the wrong person to have an opinion of quality to someone asking the question on whether to purchase/lease a Bolt EV without a DCFC.

Why? Tim purchased a Bolt EV with a DCFC!

Well in that case, thank you. Thank you for policing this forum and helping inform us whose opinion is invalid, in your opinion. You are certainly welcome to your opinion. I thought I was welcome to mine, but you are telling me that mine is invalid too. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

And now back to your regularly scheduled DC fast charger discussion.

 

[redpoint5]

Tim has an opinion, but he is the wrong person to have an opinion of quality to someone asking the question on whether to purchase/lease a Bolt EV without a DCFC.

Why? Tim purchased a Bolt EV with a DCFC!

I've never jumped off a cliff onto rocks below, so my opinion of whether it's a good idea or not is invalid! I'm completely incapable of imagining any other scenario other than the ones that I have personally experienced. In fact, I didn't vote on who should be the next president of the US because the leading candidates had never been president before, and therefore my opinion of who would be most suitable is invalid.

 

[PV1]

I'm sorry, Michael, but recognizing that someone else's situation may be different from his does not invalidate Tim's opinion.

Tim has an opinion, but he is the wrong person to have an opinion of quality to someone asking the question on whether to purchase/lease a Bolt EV without a DCFC.

Why? Tim purchased a Bolt EV with a DCFC!

I'm having trouble understanding your point of view. True, all three of my cars have a quick charge port (I refused to buy without it), but wouldn't my use of the port determine whether or not it was a worthwhile investment at least for me?

If any specific person can't decide on whether or not to get it, they need to analyze their projected use, the current and future state of the charging infrastructure, and how far they drive each day. When I bought my first i-MiEV, there was only one quick charger within range, and it was near the edge of my range at that in a direction I rarely go. However, knowing that the infrastructure is going to expand, and knowing that I might be traveling near where the chargers are going in, I bought a car that had the port. In hindsight, I'm glad I did, as I have used them several times.

If all you buy the car for is a 50 mile round trip to work and back, and that is the bulk of your driving, then you could skip on the port and save $700. It all depends on your needs and what you'll use the car for, as well as seeing what infrastructure is there and gambling a bit on what may be. However, watching the used EV market unfold over the last several years has shown that cars with quick charging get sold first, and for a slight premium over those without. We can offer up observations, facts, and our own opinions and recommendations, but ultimately it is up to the buyer whether or not to opt-into a car with quick charging. Just because my opinion is different from someone else's doesn't mean one or the other is invalid.

My opinion to a perspective EV buyer: analyze your needs and wants, scope out http://plugshare.com , and decide for yourself if the quick charge port is worth it to you. Some advice, though. If you think that you *might* take a road trip in the Bolt, then get the quick charge port. Even if you never do, you might find it saving your hide one late night after some unplanned detours .

 

[IMAdolt]

I don't own a Bolt yet or maybe I'll go with another car by the time they're available here (In Canada where they're standard equipment) so my opinion on the use and functionality of a DCFC and whether or not they're "essential" is invalid.

It'll never "pay for it's self". Do I need it to use the Bolt for 98% of my driving needs? No but it will give me piece of mind and the flexibility to use my car for everything aside from the odd road trip or camping or hunting trip into the mountains, I still plan to keep my truck which I put maybe 2000km a year on.

But I guess my life is essentially invalid

 

[Anonymous]

Elon Musk understands that every long range Tesla he manufactures must have a SuperCharger port, so they are not optional.

GM understands that every long range EV should have a DCFC port and so every Bolt EV manufactured for Canada has one included.

However GM Marketing in the USA overruled this decision so that they could market the Bolt EV as "less than $30,000 (after the federal $7,500 tax credit)" so the DCFC port is optional!

And because it is optional, GM USA must manufacture some of them without DCFC ports.

And because GM USA manufactures some of them without DCFC ports, it must force them down the distribution channels to dealers who don't ask for them.

And because dealers who receive Bolt EVs without DCFC ports don't want to be stuck with them, it sells them to unsuspecting buyers who are newbies when it comes to EV technology:

so, i ordered a chevy bolt for my husband for his birthday, i had given specifications to the dealership, i had even discussed with them how awesome i thought it was that it could charge X amount of miles while he was at work/or traveling and taking a long lunch break with Fast Charge...you think that would mean my car would come with that . but when the car was delivered to my house and after i signed papers and they drove off, we noticed that that car wasn't installed with the DC option in the car!! ugh! The dealership won't take the car back without some crazy restocking fee, etc, so needless to say we are stuck with 240V option only that takes 8-9 hours at night.

Now why don't each and every one of you go over to this thread and congratulate Kathy on her freedom of choice of obtaining a Bolt EV without the DCFC port! I am sure she will love to hear from each and every one of you!!

And when someone finally listens to your advice on this thread to obtain a Bolt EV without a DCFC port and then, it is only a matter of time before they realize the folly of their decison, you can each drive by in your Bolt EV with the DCFC port option while they are parked by the side of the road charging at a Level 2 charger for the necessary 7-9 hours to obtain a full charge!

You can be so proud of yourselves and how valid your opinion was with your DCFC port already installed!

Kathy's waiting and I am done leading a horse to water!

 

[TimBolt]

You provide an example of an owner who wanted DCFC but didn't check to see if the car she bought actually had DCFC. While unfortunate, that owner clearly wanted the DCFC option.

Your contention is that everyone should have DCFC. I respectfully disagree with that contention, as there may be owners who have no use for DCFC, or no DCFC availability. I don't pretend to know whether this feature will be of use to every Bolt owner.

There are many states with ZERO CCS chargers. If an owner in one of those states buys a Bolt, how exactly would they get to use the DCFC? Would they trailer their Bolt to the nearest state that had a charger and plug in, then trailer the Bolt back?

 

[oilerlord]

I noticed you have a TDI. I just sold my 2010 Jetta wagon back to VW, but it was a great car. I couldn't pass-up their offer, $17.5k for a seven year old car that cost $26k new. I miss rowing my own gears, but one pedal driving is fun too.

It still is a great car. Because I imported it from the US into Canada, I'm kind of in a gray area. From what I've read on VW forums, a few other guys in my situation tried to cash in on the deal too, but were denied from VW of America because it was exported. VW Canada won't do anything either because it's a "US" car. The VW reminds me so much of my previous A4 and S4 Audi wagons - but with much better fuel economy. Back in 2013 I test drove a bunch of other hybrids but sitting in the VW felt like coming home & sitting in your favorite chair.

So, I'm "stuck" with a car that is perfect for my long drives from Alberta to Arizona, and that's so far the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned thus far.

Memo to armchair environmental / anti-VW peanut gallery: Don't bother. Save your keystrokes for another fight because I've heard it all. Feel like stepping up for the cause a with your own USD $17.5K buyback offer to help me "save the planet" with car more to your liking? Didn't think so.

 

[DucRider]

So, I'm "stuck" with a car that is perfect for my long drives from Alberta to Arizona, and that's so far the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned thus far.

We are all well aware that the perfect car for long distance travel is intentionally designed to leave a toxic trail of pollution up to 70x the amount allowed by the EPA. We should all run out and find one as soon as possible as they are getting harder to find since those meddlesome treehuggers made VW buy them back or fix them.

I understand that your decision to import a car has left you with less options, but when you proclaim it's perfection, you will get called on it every time.

 

[TimBolt]

So, I'm "stuck" with a car that is perfect for my long drives from Alberta to Arizona, and that's so far the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned thus far.

We are all well aware that the perfect car for long distance travel is intentionally designed to leave a toxic trail of pollution up to 70x the amount allowed by the EPA. We should all run out and find one as soon as possible as they are getting harder to find since those meddlesome treehuggers made VW buy them back or fix them.

I understand that your decision to import a car has left you with less options, but when you proclaim it's perfection, you will get called on it every time.

Please remember that the VW TDI models were sold as clean diesels, and that those who bought them in good faith were victims of a massive corporate fraud. VW has no Canadian buyback program, would you have the owner simply abandon it and take the loss?

Also, what's the environmental impact of crushing 500,000 late model cars and building 500,000 new cars to replace them? Was that calculation done before ordering VW to buy them all back? I think modifying the cars to get them to run as cleanly as possible would have been a better option, destroying and replacing a half million cars can't be good for the environment either.

And yes, a TDI wagon is a great road trip car.

 

[SeanNelson]

And because GM USA manufactures some of them without DCFC ports, it must force them down the distribution channels to dealers who don't ask for them.

It's my understanding that GM allocates production slots to dealers, and then the dealers tell GM what cars they want built for those slots. So it's the dealer's choice of equipping the cars with DCFC capability or not, just as it is for the mix of LT and Premiere models and which colours they want. Some of those cars the dealers option out on spec, and some of them they order on behalf of customers who have requested specific features.

GM Canada as a "customer" of GM USA has decided as a matter of policy to order only cars with DCFC. That's probably because most Canadian Bolts will be sold in markets where there will be opportunity to use the capability, combined with a smaller market size that would make stocking a plethora of different option combinations more problematic.

 

[Anonymous]

And because GM USA manufactures some of them without DCFC ports, it must force them down the distribution channels to dealers who don't ask for them.

It's my understanding that GM allocates production slots to dealers, and then the dealers tell GM what cars they want built for those slots. So it's the dealer's choice of equipping the cars with DCFC capability or not, just as it is for the mix of LT and Premiere models and which colours they want.

That is not my experience when I went Bolt shopping in December 2016 when the one I ordered and paid a deposit for did not arrive at my dealer until January 3rd 2017 in California! Dealers were at a loss as to why certain Bolt EV with permutations of features were showing up at their dealerships at that time!

So according to your theory both of the following Bolt EVs without DCFC were specifically ordered by the dealers to be without DCFC's just to have laying around in inventory and then the dealer looked for customers to "foist" them off on!?

so, i ordered a chevy bolt for my husband for his birthday, i had given specifications to the dealership, i had even discussed with them how awesome i thought it was that it could charge X amount of miles while he was at work/or traveling and taking a long lunch break with Fast Charge...you think that would mean my car would come with that . but when the car was delivered to my house and after i signed papers and they drove off, we noticed that that car wasn't installed with the DC option in the car!! ugh!

I recently visited the local dealer and found a model that is loaded. The only option lacking is the DC fast charger plug.

These experiences plus mine lead me to believe that your understanding is wrong!

 

[SparkE]

[

The day will come (and perhaps is already there in some areas) when there will be too many green cars to make HOV access a viable incentive too. But that's a good thing, because it means that green cars have become a significant percentage of the fleet, and that means the fleet is less dirty than it would otherwise be.

That time has come in many parts of the SF Bay area. CarPool lanes are very clogged in many zones (for example, most HOV lanes in the south bay) due to plug-in hybrids. The "green" (PHEV) stickers expire in 2019, thank God. There are many areas where the HOV lanes are moving barely faster than the regular lanes, because of all the Green HOV-exception stickers.

Frankly, I think that the next version of the CA HOV incentive for EVs should allow (almost) only 100% CLEAN solutions :
1- BEVs
2- PHEVs purchased after 2018 with a min all-electric range of 40 miles
3- Fuel cell

For #2, it will inspire car makers to produce the vehicles, because those that really care WILL buy them, in the thousands and tens of 1000s.

 

[SeanNelson]

So according to your theory both of the following Bolt EVs without DCFC were specifically ordered by the dealers to be without DCFC's just to have laying around in inventory and then the dealer looked for customers to "foist" them off on!?

I don't understand what's so unbelievable about that. It's not like the dealers are EV experts that know what their customers want. And from reading some posts in this thread it's obvious that at least some people really do want the cheaper, non-DCFC cars.

 

[sgt1372]

I leased my Bolt from Capitol Chevy in San Jose, which ordered all of its Bolts w/DCFC. So, it wasn't an option at all but I think that was wise because I think that DCFC should come as stardard equipment anyway.

My guess is that Chevy didn't include DCFC as stanard ewuipmentt in order to hold the line on the, $37,500 MSRP so that it could market the Bolt as a, $30k car (after the $7.5k Fed tax credit).

Marketing it as a $30,750 car wouldn't have the same ring to it.

LOL!

 

[Anonymous]

And from reading some posts in this thread it's obvious that at least some people really do want the cheaper, non-DCFC cars.

Links please

 

[Anonymous]

I leased my Bolt from Capitol Chevy in San Jose, which ordered all of its Bolts w/DCFC. So, it wasn't an option at all but I think that was wise because I think that DCFC should come as stardard equipment anyway.

My guess is that Chevy didn't include DCFC as stanard ewuipmentt in order to hold the line on the, $37,500 MSRP so that it could market the Bolt as a, $30k car (after the $7.5k Fed tax credit).

Marketing it as a $30,750 car wouldn't have the same ring to it.

LOL!

sgt1372 I think you are on to something here!

If all Bolt EVs included DCFC as standard equipment then there would be none without it to foist upon unsuspecting consumers who apparently have little or no recourse to rectify this mistake!

So far all we see are examples of Bolt EV owner/leasees who are upset that they do not have the DCFC option! If, as one member of this forum suggests, this forum is but a small example of all Bolt EV owners/leasees, then there must be many more who are upset!

There has not been one example of a Bolt EV owner/leasee praising their savings by obtaining one without the DCFC option brought to anyone's attention, here or elsewhere!

All of the members of this forum who champion the ability to purchase/lease a Bolt EV without the DCFC option, already have a DCFC themselves!

I am with you, sgt1372; I like your clear thinking on this topic!

 

[oilerlord]

It's not like the dealers are EV experts that know what their customers want. And from reading some posts in this thread it's obvious that at least some people really do want the cheaper, non-DCFC cars.

^^^ This.

Count me in that group. I'd rather see GM spend that $750 on upgrading the car's internal charger to handle up to 19.2 kW. Being able to charge a 60 kWh battery in as little as 3 hours at home or on L2 elsewhere ALL of the time would be something I'd gladly pay $750 for. Since I have nowhere to plug into DCFC, it's worthless to me, and the other 4 million people that live in Alberta. Choice is good.

 

[WetEV]

So far all we see are examples of Bolt EV owner/leasees who are upset that they do not have the DCFC option! If, as one member of this forum suggests, this forum is but a small example of all Bolt EV owners/leasees, then there must be many more who are upset!

There has not been one example of a Bolt EV owner/leasee praising their savings by obtaining one without the DCFC option brought to anyone's attention, here or elsewhere!

I can see how most people want DCQC. But not all.

Suppose you are not in California, but in Glendive, MT. The closest public charging station is in Canada, and that is a L2. 321 km away. 200 miles.

The odds of this person driving up to any DCQC in the next 3 years of your lease is just about exactly zero. Other than a Tesla supercharger, which the Bolt can't use, of course.

Would you recommend the DCQC option to this person in Glendive, MT?