Ms. Barra's '18 Bolt to-do list

[LeftieBiker]

My wife is looking to replace her BMW 330, so we're shopping i3 REx models.

I don't follow the i3, but a guy at the Leaf forum does, and he reports many serious issues with the REX i3. The kinds of things that leave the car dead at the side of the road. See if you can find the Facebook page for them.

 

[EldRick]

I saw one on a flatbed yesterday.

 

[iletric]

Wait for Leaf 2

 

[ScooterCT]

>> wait for Leaf2...

GM made that choice really easy for anyone not living in CA. The tea leaf readers are all saying a Leaf 2 Geneva auto show unveil in March, and in dealers just a few weeks later. Nissan normally unveils replacements only a few weeks before you can buy, just so they don't cannibalize current sales (GM had no Bolt, so they could announce waay early). Since the Bolt doesn't reach CT until summer, we get to wait and see. 2018 Kia Soul EV with more range a few months later.

I think the advice for Mary Barra really depends on what we see shipping later this year. Right now, the Bolt is getting adored as the only girl on the dance floor. That's a whole lot different than having Leaf 2, Tesla 3, and 2018 Soul EV to contend with. Maybe they stink up the place, maybe they don't.

I can already hear the standard responses, so save the keystrokes. (1) The Tesla won't ship for two years. (2) The Leaf 2 will stink. (3) The Kia will be ugly. Those of us on a mandatory 6-month wait have the wonderful luxury of time to watch this all unfold before we need to choose. No need to get on a waiting list, since we watched the Bolt waiting list guys get totally hosed by GM. No worry about availability, because one month after release, the CA lots already have plenty of unsold stock (900+ according to cars.com).

 

[Fargoneandout]

Could be BS but Chevy claims that time on lots in January for Bolt is 7 days - the fastest selling car in the Industry. My dealer had 10 on the lot when I picked up mine and my sales guy said they were all either sold or bearing deposits. Cars.com may have them but even the big dealers in CA are advertising cars they don't even have yet. I contacted a rival dealer to get a quote on a car I could use to sweeten my order deal, found a car, and learned that it and many of its siblings was 'in transit'.

https://electrek.co/2017/02/01/gm-delivered-1162-chevy-bolt-evs-january/

But your judgement is sound, ScooterCT - Mary need not make a call yet because they are not going to refresh significantly at least until they know what the Model 3 will really look like. Unless the Leaf2 and Soul EV really have tricks up their (s)leaves, they are behind before even beginning. Their major feature updates were probably baked in two years ago with the window candy baked in a year back. No reports have emerged of range improvements on the order of what Mary has already achieved. Heck, even the iREX only goes 180 and that's a nearly 50k car with no options.

I'm betting they have to deal with the leather seats and by rights should really deal with that as a recall IMHO. Those photos of the guy sitting in an LT and a Premier with his tookus hitting the seat in the leather on contemporaneous test drives is horrid.

 

[iletric]

Bolt moves fast right now because those are spoken for units. It's when the lots fill up and 2nd and 3rd tier customers show up (the ones who want it but did not put money down and the kick-tire ones who just want to see what the fuss is all about) will GM find out how Bolt's selling for real.

And...count on Leaf 2, Model 3 and Soul with 60 kWh battery (?) give GM run for their money. Those will be superb cars.

 

[stevewa]

3. Execute whichever of your employees it was who decided to default the audio system to Sirius XM.

I'm not observing this, but the first thing I did was delete all the "favorite" entries and put in my own. Now it comes up with one of my FM stations (except for the time or two when it's fogotten my favorites, which I am thinking may be associated with OTA updates?).

It can't connect to your external device until their USB or BT connection is established, maybe that's what you're seeing?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Bolt moves fast right now because those are spoken for units. It's when the lots fill up and 2nd and 3rd tier customers show up (the ones who want it but did not put money down and the kick-tire ones who just want to see what the fuss is all about) will GM find out how Bolt's selling for real.

And...count on Leaf 2, Model 3 and Soul with 60 kWh battery (?) give GM run for their money. Those will be superb cars.

I'm curious as to why you list the Soul as one that will be a suberb car. I've been trying to get myself into a Soul for a test drive, but -although available in NYS- it is not available here in Syracuse. I just haven't heard much about the car, and am curious about your impressions and why.

 

[boltage]

And...count on Leaf 2, Model 3 and Soul with 60 kWh battery (?) give GM run for their money. Those will be superb cars.

I'm curious as to why you list the Soul as one that will be a suberb car. I've been trying to get myself into a Soul for a test drive, but -although available in NYS- it is not available here in Syracuse. I just haven't heard much about the car, and am curious about your impressions and why.

If a long range Soul EV is offered, it will probably be the closest thing to the Bolt in terms of other non-EV aspects, since the Soul is a tall hatchback/wagon with a small footprint like the Bolt. Of course, there could be differences in things like ride, handling, features, etc. that cause some to prefer one versus the other.

The Leaf has a somewhat larger footprint, while the Model 3 is sedan.

 

[iletric]

We leased Soul EV in Oct 2014 the week it came out. It replaced '11 Leaf. The selling point for us, as a statement what Kia tried to show off, was the 3 level heated and cooled seats, as well as 93-mile range, the best that year, other then Tesla. Also, 3 levels of steering firmness (which we keep at sport).

Seats are normal, of course, driving it feels to me like a boat floating on quiet water. Almost no road noise, and it basically steers itself, no jerky movements required. I won't miss the now 89 summer and 74 winter ranges. Car has now almost 40,000 miles and it is going back Oct this year.

If Bolt and Soul were side-by-side with a 60kWh inside, I take Soul. Hands down.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Cool, thanks for sharing. Sounds like you love your Soul. Honestly, given all the trade-offs you mentioned, I would prefer the Bolt for its sportier handling. A boat floating on quiet water sounds awfully boring to this sailor Also, cooled seats are a novelty that I'd use maybe 2-3x per year because of my climate. But in a hot area, I could see the appeal.

I'm still hoping for a lot more options, so we can all get what we want.

 

[ScooterCT]

>> I would prefer the Bolt for its sportier handling

I'm a gas guzzler Soul+ owner here, and it totally isn't a sporty handler. It's a solid family car type of suspension setup. In order to get all the usable space in back (The Soul is amazing - 61 cu ft in a 163 inch car), Kia had to use a torsion beam rear axle. Not ever gonna be a sports car, even though the turbo has 200HP (see the TFL Car video from last week).

I agree with the previous poster. If Kia offers anything close to 200 miles in the looming 2018 Soul EV, I will run, no walk, down to the nearest dealer, money in hand. But everything I read says we're going to get 150 miles. That's not quite enough out here in the New England countryside.

If handling is your goal, it's Bolt over Soul. Ditto for range. But boy, if you only need 150 miles range, you should check out the 2018 Soul EV when it hits the lots this summer. It's one plush, heavily contented vehicle. Wide, comfy, stable. Just totally awesome in every way except range.

 

[oilerlord]

The Soul EV has a heat pump too. I'm finding out that it's definitely a "nice to have" if your EV lives in a winter climate. Not sure why GM chose not to design one for the Bolt. Cost?

I echo Scoot's remarks. We were able to drive a Soul EV for a few hours. It's big inside, and has a very cushy ride. Wife loved it, and we may have bought it had the the resale market not priced them another $5K more than my B-Class (at the time). Couldn't justify the difference.

 

[iletric]

Actually, despite its looks, Soul is quite agile in weaving through congested traffic. But ultimately, for me at this stage, the most important thing is getting safely and comfortably from A to B, in a way that I don't reach my destination frazzled and exhausted.

So, yeah, boring is in.

 

[boltage]

The Soul's box shape gives it a lot of interior room for a car with a small footprint. The seats appear to be less sporty (but with some side bolstering), so larger people may find them more comfortable.

However, reviews of both the gasoline and electric Soul indicate that the ride is rather stiff.

 

[Nagorak]

Bolt moves fast right now because those are spoken for units. It's when the lots fill up and 2nd and 3rd tier customers show up (the ones who want it but did not put money down and the kick-tire ones who just want to see what the fuss is all about) will GM find out how Bolt's selling for real.

And...count on Leaf 2, Model 3 and Soul with 60 kWh battery (?) give GM run for their money. Those will be superb cars.

I'm not sure why you have so much confidence in the Leaf 2. Nissan was the early leader on EVs but really rested on their laurels. They let GM surpass them by not making any significant upgrades to the car in 7 years. The longer range version of the Leaf supposedly is not even coming until 2018 (although if that's model year then I suppose it could be the tail end of this year).

I own a Leaf but I have very low expectations for the model coming out this year. I won't mind being proved wrong of course.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I expect the next Leaf to appear in the 4th quarter (Oct-Dec) of this year as a 2018 model. I've been following Nissan EVs for 7 years (and driving one for 5). They were originally planning on releasing Leaf 2 this spring. I personally believe that the Bolt caught them off guard. It is much better than Ghosn probably expected. So they went back and tweaked the design to be much more competitive. I believe that cost them 6 months, but that the result will be a much better product.

So yeah, I expect the Leaf 2 to give the Bolt a run for its money. The Bolt will have about a year with the market to itself, though. (The Model 3 certainly will not be available to non-reservation-holders until 2018 at the very earliest).

The Soul is not on my radar. I appreciate all the great attributes you guys are looking forward to. But I am not its target audience, and that's fine. Honestly, the Leaf 2 probably won't meet my desires for a sporty ride either. So it will be Bolt versus Model 3 for me. But isn't it great to have all these options?

 

[iletric]

I don't think Bolt took Nissan by surprise at all. Nissan knew way ahead of us what GM was up to. I think what slowed the Leaf process down is the self-driving features they sent feelers out they will introduce in Leaf 2 to get the leg up on competing with Bolt and hold its own against self-driving Model 3 when it comes out.

If I was Ghosn I would make my battery 65 kWh just to piss GM off and give me bragging rights while take the cherry off the top of 60 kWh Model 3 at the same time.

Nissan knows it has to get the Leaf 2 just right or they'll be stuck selling their ICE wares and lose the world EV leadership position.

 

[SparkE]

The Soul is not on my radar. I appreciate all the great attributes you guys are looking forward to. But I am not its target audience, and that's fine.

You aren't a chipmunk?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I don't think Bolt took Nissan by surprise at all. Nissan knew way ahead of us what GM was up to.

Nissan may have known that GM was working on a long range EV. But I doubt they knew it would get 238 miles from a starting MSRP of $37,495. They couldn't have known how good it would be. They also didn't know whether it would really be delivered in 2016. Those are the things I believe caught them by surprise.

<span>The <a href="http://www.mykiasoulev.com" class="interlinkr">Soul<span class="tip">Visit the Soul Forum</span></a> is not on my radar. I appreciate all the great attributes you guys are looking forward to. But I am not its target audience, and that's fine.

</span>


You aren't a chipmunk?

No, actually. Are there chipmunks on this forum?

I know there are many people who see cars as little more than A-to-B transportation appliances. They look for value, reliability, safety, and the like. I look for something more engaging than that in a car. An EV starts out ahead of an ICE IMO, but now I can compare EV to EV. The Soul doesn't sound like it stacks up against my requirements.