Range Issues?

[Anonymous]

Where are YOU?

I still think you have the range, your meter just needs to be reset.

 

[boltage]

I do get about 4.1 miles per kWh, which would give 246 miles out of 60 kWh, slightly exceeding the rated 238 mile range. This is with reasonably economical driving (but not extreme hypermiling), with substantial driving at around 65mph on freeways (which seems to give about 3.6-3.7 miles per kWh), minimal heat or AC use, and not a lot of hills.

However, one trip with heat use (for others in the car) did yield a substantially worse economy of around 3 miles per kWh. When I am driving by myself, I usually use the heated seats instead of the heater if it is cold.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

My two cents here -
I think this thread (among others) really highlights the need to update the Monroney sticker. EVs are different. The sticker should reflect that. One number is NOT enough. It should have 2 or 3. Sure, the CA drivers can ignore the winter numbers, but the MN drivers will be glad to know it.

When I bought my Leaf in 2012, Nissan went out of their way to educate me about range variation. They gave me 3 scenarios - a typical commute with light HVAC needs, high-speed without HVAC, and low-speed stop-and-go with the heater running. The last scenario gave less than 40 miles of range! I was ok with that, but I literally had to initial each case stating that I read it. As we see EVs go more mainstream, this kind of education will be even more necessary.

To the OP - I completely believe you that 140 miles is possible in the right conditions. People still don't believe me that I get less than 30 miles out of my Leaf during the dead of winter. That I must be doing something wrong. Yeah, something like keeping my kids in the backseat from freezing when it's -20F outside.

 

[oilerlord]

I do get about 4.1 miles per kWh, which would give 246 miles out of 60 kWh, slightly exceeding the rated 238 mile range. This is with reasonably economical driving but not extreme hypermiling, with substantial driving at around 65mph on freeways (which seems to give about 3.6-3.7 miles per kWh), minimal heat or AC use, and not a lot of hills.

However, one trip with heat use (for others in the car) did yield a substantially worse economy of around 3 miles per kWh. When I am driving by myself, I usually use the heated seats instead of the heater if it is cold.

It's interesting to read between the lines on some of these posts. "Reasonably economical" really is code for "choosing to be cold". As a recovering hypermiler, I recognize the warning signs of an addict. You turned on the heat for others in the car, but you would have been perfectly content freezing your ass off for those 4.1 miles per kWh. Normal people don't do this, but we do.

Without the love and support from my family, I may not have gotten through this terrible disease. I still attend HA meetings from time to time, and have recently earned my 1-year chip. I haven't drafted a semi in 14 months.

 

[boltage]

"Reasonably economical" was in reference to acceleration and braking habits, not heat and AC use mentioned later. And I do not intentionally draft trucks or other vehicles because it is unsafe.

I live in a relatively mild climate, and probably have a higher tolerance for temperature variation than most people. Plus, on a cold day, I wear warmer clothes. So the heated seats are fine for me most If the time in terms of heat.

 

[oilerlord]

And I do not intentionally draft trucks or other vehicles because it is unsafe.

Never said you did. Calling Dr. Freud...

 

[GetOffYourGas]

And I do not intentionally draft trucks or other vehicles because it is unsafe.

Never said you did. Calling Dr. Freud...

You say that you used to draft trucks, he responds that he doesn't, and you refer to Freud? :lol:

 

[oilerlord]

You say that you used to draft trucks, he responds that he doesn't, and you refer to Freud? :lol:

He volunteered that he doesn't draft semis, when I didn't say he was. Just having fun with him, that's all. I think a lot of guys make some sacrifices (crazy or otherwise) in the name of treading lightly with our cars - which was a reference I was pointing out (again, in jest). I pretty much avoid using the heater in my EV too.

By the way, before others start looking for a meeting in their area, Hypermilers Anonymous is a fictitious organization.

 

[SparkE]

By the way, before others start looking for a meeting in their area, Hypermilers Anonymous is a fictitious organization.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the trucks I cannot safely draft, the courage to draft the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

:mrgreen:

 

[michael]

As a confession, in the days when I had an 80 mile class car that became a 50 mile class car with use, I occasionally did follow trucks just so that I could reach my destination. You don't need to get dangerously close in order to get substantial benefit, and if you're behind a slow-moving truck, people don't get pissed off at you.

 

[DaveInAvl]

"God grant me the serenity to accept the trucks I cannot safely draft, the courage to draft the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

Or else you might look like the guy who got hit by the streetcar...

 

[gpsman]

As a confession, in the days when I had an 80 mile class car that became a 50 mile class car with use, I occasionally did follow trucks just so that I could reach my destination. You don't need to get dangerously close in order to get substantial benefit, and if you're behind a slow-moving truck, people don't get pissed off at you.

As we were talking about air density in the "this car likes it hot" thread....

Turbulent air is easier to pass through than still air.
Traveling 100-125 feet behind a semi will net you 10% more range usually. And it's far enough not to draw attention to yourself that "hey, I'm intentionally drafting" and you have enough road space to dodge road kill or debris the truck passes over... IF you remained focused.

 

[oilerlord]

Traveling 100-125 feet behind a semi will net you 10% more range usually. And it's far enough not to draw attention to yourself that "hey, I'm intentionally drafting" and you have enough road space to dodge road kill or debris the truck passes over... IF you remained focused.

Still dangerous. 100 feet @65mph allows about 1 second of reaction time. 10% more range / FE with 90% more risk of damage to your car, or getting into an accident. Not worth it. Years ago, a truck kicked up a large rock that hit my windshield. The "savings" didn't come close to covering the $250 to replace it.

 

[michael]

It's not so much the "savings" as it is the ability to reach your destination. Again, that's a big advantage of a 200 mile class car vs an 80 mile class car...you don't need to be so careful about saving every kWh.

In a Bolt, I would see far less incentive to follow a truck than when I was in the Focus. Then I sometimes really needed to do so.

 

[gpsman]

In general I agree with you.
So do this only when necessary.
Like when charging stations are 250 miles apart because the one you planned on in the middle was broken, and your EV usually goes 230 miles.

You could also drive slower (good choice) drive as far as possible, then call for a tow truck (less good choice) or cancel your trip due to a lousy broken charger (worst choice).

But it's good there are choices.

 

[HotPotato]

I've always believed the use of a resistive heater was a big cheapening of the car. If Nissan, BMW, and KIA could put in a heat pump, why didn't Chevy at least offer it as an extra cost option?

Apparently the heat pump system (Nissan's anyway) makes heat more efficient but A/C less efficient. In my EV hotbed of southern California, the AC is usually on, the heater almost never. So your suggestion of making it optional, not standard, seems like a good solution to meet everyone's needs.

 

[HotPotato]

The bottom line is I've learned that I guess I really am an idiot for reading all the reviews and not realizing that its all mostly hype. And then thinking that GM or the dealer is going to try and help of with a outside of the norm case like mine.

You are not an idiot!

Another commenter noted that when he bought his Leaf, Nissan provided estimated range for a variety of temperature and speed combinations, and made him initial each one before they would complete the sale. Chevy should probably take a leaf (ha!) from Nissan's book and do the same.

And EPA should consider publishing temperature-corrected range estimates as well---maybe for all cars. Efficiency does take a hit from weather in an ICE car too---it's just not as severe. Hybrids fall in between---in winter people lose out on that big hybrid efficiency boost on a short trip because the gas engine still has to fire to warm the cabin and get the catalytic converters to operating temperature.

IIRC you didn't mention if you pre-condition the cabin or not. If you can get the cabin up to the desired temperature while the car is still plugged in, that will help. If you can garage the car, that will help. If you can charge at work---even with a regular 120 volt outlet---that might add enough range, especially if you pre-condition on that end too, to get rid of range anxiety.

If you do have to sell the Bolt, you might find a private buyer who will offer you much more than the dealer---especially in a state where the Bolt is not yet available. (Not sure if this site allows for-sale listings, but if so it's an obvious place to start.) Or a friend or family member might have a shorter commute, want an EV, and be willing to trade cars with you. Or if you leased, you might be able to use swapalease or similar to find someone to take over your lease. Or if Uber and Lyft are active in your area, you might be able to use a platform such as HyreCar to rent it out to Uber drivers, and maybe even make some money with it. (Or recruit the drivers and carry the insurance yourself, if you're entrepreneurial.)

 

[powersurge]

This is my first post on this very popular topic... I own a Nissan leaf and ALSO had concerns when I first got my car, which has much less range than the Bolt.. To the original poster, I would suggest making some un-technical diagnostics.... Take an hour of so to do some boring mileage testing... (NO HEAT, NO A/C, DRIVING ONLY AT 55MPH ON YOUR CRUISE CONTROL)

First determine that the amount of energy your car is USING is correct. Find a relatively flat, straight piece of highway that you can drive leisurely for 5-10 miles. If you can go further, good, but if not, do back and forth trips. (I would suggest 20-30 miles total). (if the road is not flat, the back and forth trips will cancel out going uphill one way because you will be going downhill on the return trip. Zero your computer for the # of MILES PER KWH, and zero the odometer counter. *PS - Start the trip and make a note of the Battery% (let's stay between 70 and 90%).

Do your "laps".... The more the better.

At the end of your test drive, See how many MILES PER KW you are getting (at 55mph). I would say that you should be between 4-5.5 MILES per KW.... (**** This is a check on how much energy your car is ACTUALLY USING. A low number would possibly mean that the car is dragging or wasting energy more than it should be.)

Then... We should check the number of miles you drove VS how many "BATTERY %" points you used. With a theoretical range of 238 miles on the battery, you should have gone 2.39 MILES PER BATTTERY % POINT (out of 100)... If you did not drive near this number of miles per battery point, then the CAPACITY OF THE BATTERY is wrong.

After doing this, you will have a good baseline of what YOUR car is capable of performing before you add other "real world" factors. If there is actually a problem, you would have a lot of information for the dealer to take your issue seriously... Good Luck..

 

[oilerlord]

It's not so much the "savings" as it is the ability to reach your destination. Again, that's a big advantage of a 200 mile class car vs an 80 mile class car...you don't need to be so careful about saving every kWh.

In a Bolt, I would see far less incentive to follow a truck than when I was in the Focus. Then I sometimes really needed to do so.

I see where you're coming from, doing all the extreme hypermiling techniques - just to make it home. I think most people do it because it becomes more of a range / efficiency game than anything else, and they are continually going for a new personal best number. For me, it doesn't justify the risk of an accident, or dozens of rock chips in the paint. It also really pisses off the truck driver. Generally speaking, it isn't the smartest idea to play games with a trucker behind the wheel of a 80,000 pound rig.

To GPSman's hypothetical: In a Bolt, I see zero incentive to draft semis. Ever. If the success of making it to your destination 400 miles away depends on single working charger...drive a different car.

 

[michael]

And to be clear, I did it only the few times I got in a jam and felt it might be necessary. In general, I drove the Focus like every other car. In fact, often faster than most since I got to use the carpool lane.

The Focus was pretty good about letting you know your energy status. It would continuously display the kWh/mile necessary to reach your next charging spot. If that number was uncomfortably low and getting lower, you knew to take some action.