What's with all the Tesla Fans anti-Bolt anger?

[ziv]

Yep - the market will speak. And that's how it should be.

I'd expect in response to Tesla's reservation run, GM will be cooking up a new and improved Bolt with longer range, or lower price, or more features for 2018/2019 to compete with the Model 3.

Now let's see who is first to market with an EV pickup truck!

 

[BoltADrome]

I think pickups are better served by an EREV (ala Volt) design as the first step to electrifying them. VIA Motors already has the formula tested: V6 generator coupled to an electric motor with lots of torque. 40 mile battery range. Even has the ability to provide AC power for jobsites and an optional solar bed cover that claims to add up to 10 miles range a day. :mrgreen:

From experience with my Volt, 40 miles goes a long way to eliminating gas usage on a daily basis , while conserving the long range ability that sometimes crops up.

 

[lasvegascolonel]

There's a lot of online hate towards GM from people reserving the Model 3 stating that GM doesn't build cars people want, and Tesla is the only American company trying hard to make great cars.

When the first gen Volt was released it was the most awarded car in the US ever. And now, the 2nd gen Volt has improved on almost every aspect of it, including price.

GM's failure to hit their electric vehicle sales targets has nothing to do with the quality of the products they are offering, and I would estimate the same for the Bolt EV. If marketed, and stocked and supported by dealerships, I see no reason why the Bolt can't sell in large numbers.
Yet, at the same time, we have GM estimating/targeting only 30,000 the first year, it makes you wonder how much effort they will put into marketing the vehicle to the masses.

 

[DucRider]

Yet, at the same time, we have GM estimating/targeting only 30,000 the first year...

2015 Sales numbers (US) for the top 3 BEV's:

• Tesla Model S - 25,202
  Nissan LEAF - 17,269
  BMW i3 - 11,024

30K would equal the largest number of any EV's ever sold in a year - the 2014 LEAF sold 30,200. GM has stated 30K-50K annual sales, but that it will not be production constrained. If the market demands more, they can (and will) produce them.

 

[michael]

Picture this as a Super Bowl ad....

Dad and son are driving along a street. It looks like end of the world. All in grey and black. Starving people, thousands of them, lined up along the sidewalk with cots, sleeping bags, tents. They are filthy and starving.

Son: Who are those people? Why are they lined up along the road?

Dad: They paid $1000 for a spot in line to buy a 200 mile electric car. They are still waiting. Nobody knows when the car will be available. Nobody knows how it will be equipped. Nobody knows exactly what it will cost. They are waiting....

Son: That's pretty dumb.

Scene: Bolt driving along the highway. Copy: Bolt: the affordable 200 mile electric car you can buy today. In stock at your Chevy Dealer. Why wait?

 

[Zoomit]

People are not "lining up" for the Model 3, they are lining up for the ideas reprented by Tesla and the Model 3. GM will never represent the same ideology.

I might get a Bolt EV, but it has to be compelling enough to counter my negative opinions of GM. The Spark EV did that for me.

Many people will rather just wait for the Model 3.

 

[summit]

Zoomit - what don't you like about the SparkEV ?

 

[Zoomit]

I had to reread my post 3 times before I understood your question. My phrasing was poor.

The Spark EV did not create my negative opinions of GM. My negative opinions were created by decades following the auto industry as an enthusiast. The Spark EV was compelling enough to me, which outweighed my negative opinions of GM, and so I got one.

The Bolt EV will have to pass the same test. The challenge for the Bolt EV is that it's significantly more expensive than a Spark EV, and so it needs to be more compelling.

Hopefully, that makes more sense now.

 

[rickp]

Tesla to GM reminds me of Apple to Samsung/Microsoft/Intel.

The products are elegant, expensive and somewhat exclusionary to most of the public. The advocates of Apple like to evangelize about the products they own much as Tesla people do.

To see their paradigm challenged by other technologies that just might do the same thing or better for less money might be why there is this anti-Bolt reaction.

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps you just need to drive a Tesla to know what it's all about?

I personally am hoping the Bolt is a great car, and sells as many as can be made.

But, like many in the EV world, I certainly have no love lost for GM and it's anti-competitive practices.

 

[Anonymous]

Tesla is a great startup with a clear mission and the drive to succeed at all costs. The products are great and constantly upgraded, the Supercharger network is amazing, the commitment to American manufacturing and innovation is compelling and they plan BIG things for the future. But, they are doing things very differently from the way automobiles have been marketed, sold and serviced since the Model T.

GM, on the other hand, has been in business for nearly 108 years and has had a hand in everything from the focus product of automobiles to space robots, refrigerators and locomotives. They have a huge range of automotive product to take care of and EVs are, unfortunately, not at the top of the pyramid because the vast majority of their $154,400,000,000 in revenue last year came from ICE vehicles. They helped create the way that automobiles are traditionally marketed, sold and serviced over the last 100 years.

GM built the world's best EV, up until the Model S, with a range of up to 140 miles in the 1990s. They handled the end of the EV1 program terribly because their vast legal team called the shots on what happened to the cars. They know they made a mistake and will not make it again. The EV1 was an engineering triumph for GM, but a costly money loser. EVs with any kind of advanced propulsion systems at that time were just too expensive to produce so GM, along with basically every other manufacturer, lobbied CARB to get rid of the ZEV mandate.

Many will find it interesting that GM itself tried changing the way cars were marketed and sold about 15 years ago. GM opened up brick and mortar stores called GM DriverSource where they sold certified pre-owned vehicles. They also marketed Saturn online and promised the ability to complete the entire car buying transaction at home on your computer. Well, the dealer franchise laws stopped all that and the DriverSource stores all closed while Saturn quietly stopped talking about buying cars online at home. GM feels that Tesla should have to play by the same rules as everyone else when it comes to selling cars since the largest auto manufacturer in the world at that time could not get around the rules.

So, I love Tesla and hope they do exceedingly well. That said, I'm looking at the Bolt.

 

[DaveN007]

This is Mac versus PC circa 1986.

Guess who won that battle for more than a decade?

(I say this as a Mac zealot, by the way.)

GM will "crush" Tesla in the near term, then Tesla will leap frog over GM by changing the game.

By then China will start building our electric cars just like they build our iPhones. "Designed in California by Elon Musk, built in China"

Have you ever disassembled an iPhone? If you can manufacture those alien devices from the future, your pets can probably build EVs.

 

[mark111]

Tesla fans are bitter because they've spent a lot of money buying a lesser car than Chevy Bolt EV. :lol:

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Tesla fans are bitter because they've spent a lot of money buying a lesser car than Chevy Bolt EV. :lol:

Care to elaborate?

 

[mark111]

Tesla fans are bitter because they've spent a lot of money buying a lesser car than Chevy Bolt EV. :lol:

Care to elaborate?

Here is an article that illustrates why Chevy Bolt is the better car.
http://www.hybridcars.com/five-advantages-the-chevy-bolt-has-over-the-tesla-model-3/

 

[DucRider]

I don't see the Model 3 as a lesser car. Nor do I see the Bolt as a lesser car.

The Model 3 is a different form factor (sedan vs hatchback) and marketed towards a more upscale buyer (few - if any - will be ordered/delivered in the base $35K configuration). Performance and Dual motor versions will dominate sales and drive the price well above the Bolt.

The Bolt is being positioned as more of a city/commuter car (DCFC not standard and CCS implementation is only 50 kW instead of top spec 100 kW), where the Model 3 is easier (on paper) to take on long road trips with the Supercharger network.

Relatively few Model S/X owners lust after the Bolt.

Many (most?) Bolt owners will lust after the Model S/X (and to some degree the Model 3). The Bolt is just a much more practical (and available) choice for most.

Bolt owners that eventually buy a Model 3 will be exponentially greater the Model 3 owners who add a Bolt to the fleet.

All of this does not make the Model 3 a better car, just a more desirable one. If you put a Model 3 and Bolt side by side and told 100 people they could have either one (for free), how many would choose the Bolt? The perception of Tesla as a premium brand and status symbol is not to be underestimated.

"There are no grades of vanity, there are only grades of ability in concealing it" - Mark Twain

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Tesla fans are bitter because they've spent a lot of money buying a lesser car than Chevy Bolt EV. :lol:

Care to elaborate?

Here is an article that illustrates why Chevy Bolt is the better car.
http://www.hybridcars.com/five-advantages-the-chevy-bolt-has-over-the-tesla-model-3/

This is a highly subjective topic, and all you've done is point at someone else's opinion. Regardless, I will bite. Let's break this down. The article mentions 5 advantages, but 2 or 3 of them aren't even about the car itself! One is questionable, and one is real. Anyway, here are their points:

1) Available Sooner.
True, but this doesn't make the Bolt a better car. Eventually they will both be available side-by-side, and the fact that the Bolt came first will hardly matter.

2) Well Sorted.
Marginally about the car. This is more about the readiness of the manufacturing lines. Tesla will probably have some issues at first, I didn't reserve in part because I don't want an early car. Eventually they will work through them (or fail as a company). But all of the other points (lessons learned from previous EVs, batteries placed in the floor, high-output motor) apply equally if not more to Tesla than to Chevy.

3) Good Utility.
Finally, something I agree with. This is an advantage to the Bolt.

4) Front Wheel Drive.
Their thinking on this one is stuck in the old ICE mindset. With a heavy gas engine mounted up front, an ICEV with FWD generally has better traction than one with RWD in slippery conditions. Moreover, the slow response of an ICE (compared to the instant torque response of an EV) makes traction control difficult to implement effectively. But RWD provides much better performance in typical conditions. And EVs are much better balanced, with about 50% of the weight over the rear wheels. I just don't buy this "FWD is automatically better than RWD" story when applied to EVs.

5) Better Odds to Collect Federal Tax Credit
Like (1), this is true but doesn't apply to the Bolt as a car. Eventually all subsidies will end for both vehicles. At that point, a buyer won't care who lost the tax credit more recently.

So yeah, I count 1.5 ways that the Bolt is better than the Model III - Utility and probably better quality for the first model year. But not everyone wants a car just to maximize utility. Heck, not everyone wants or needs that much utility. Right now, I'm looking for a fun sporty EV that can fit my family of 4, and our luggage for a weekend trip. And others will have different needs from that.