Will 2017 LEAF be able to compete with Bolt EV?

[lukestuke]

Came across this on GreenCarReports

The second-generation LEAF may offer a choice of battery sizes, but the "2017 Leaf will face competition from the 2017 Chevrolet Bolt, claimed by GM to offer 200 miles of range--so Nissan will have to get close to that for at least one version of the new Leaf."

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091583_nissan-leaf-likely-to-offer-larger-battery-for-longer-range

 

[sam]

I recall reading an article that stated Nissan was going to pimp out the Leaf so that it is competitive with not only the Chevy Bolt but other electric vehicles as well

 

[jimmyjon]

The Chevy Bolt has received so much publicity (great marketing by Chevy) we won't be able to realistically compare it until we get real time owner drive reviews......imo

 

[new2evs]

The Chevy Bolt has received so much publicity (great marketing by Chevy) we won't be able to realistically compare it until we get real time owner drive reviews......imo

I agree with that totally. The Chevy Bolt looks and sounds perfect on paper but personal reviews will be the test

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Nissan has already strongly hinted that the next Leaf will have the option of a 60kWh battery - same as the Bolt. As for timing, the last time they mentioned it, they were talking about spring 2017. We have yet to hear anything about pricing though.

So I suspect that Nissan will trail the Bolt by 3-6 months, but will provide a competitive offering. It will seem to be "out of the blue" for those not following Nissan and reading between the lines. But I assure you, they have been working on it for a while. Nissan also has much more real-world experience with BEVs than GM.

Nissan will probably unveil the Leaf 2.0 and make significant announcements before you can purchase a Bolt. So within 2-3 months, maybe the Paris auto show. My thinking is that they will try to win over the crowd who has been following the Bolt. Convince them that the Leaf 2.0 is worth waiting a few extra months for.

Everyone likes to talk about the Bolt being competition for the Tesla Model III. And it will be. But before then, it will go head-to-head with the Leaf 2.0.

 

[DucRider]

The next gen Leaf will be a 2018 model, and that is the soonest we'll see a 60 kWh battery. There may be a bigger battery (again) on the current gen (40 or 45 kWh), but LEAF 2.0 will be a year or more behind the Bolt. Unnamed but reliable sources ,

 

[SeanNelson]

Nissan also has much more real-world experience with BEVs than GM.

I disagree, because the Volt has been produced for about the same amount of time and it too is a BEV, albeit with a range extender. And GM has had a much better record with their batteries than Nissan, despite the fact that Volt owners regularly go through cycles of completely discharging the battery to "empty" (as much as the car's software allows) and then charging it back up again to "full" (same caveat). With over 100,000 Volts produced, GM has never had to replace a battery due to wearout or reduced capacity. To me that speaks of how conservative GM has been with its designs, and it bodes well for the Bolt.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The next gen Leaf will be a 2018 model, and that is the soonest we'll see a 60 kWh battery. There may be a bigger battery (again) on the current gen (40 or 45 kWh), but LEAF 2.0 will be a year or more behind the Bolt. Unnamed but reliable sources ,

Nissan can release MY2018 as early as Jan 1, 2017. I stand by my prediction of Spring 2017, we will see Leaf 2.0 as a 2018 model with a 60kWh battery.

Unlike you, I'm not afraid to name my source - Carlos Ghosn.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Nissan also has much more real-world experience with BEVs than GM.

I disagree, because the Volt has been produced for about the same amount of time and it too is a BEV, albeit with a range extender. And GM has had a much better record with their batteries than Nissan, despite the fact that Volt owners regularly go through cycles of completely discharging the battery to "empty" (as much as the car's software allows) and then charging it back up again to "full" (same caveat). With over 100,000 Volts produced, GM has never had to replace a battery due to wearout or reduced capacity. To me that speaks of how conservative GM has been with its designs, and it bodes well for the Bolt.

1) BEV refers to all-electric vehicles. The Volt does not count as a BEV. Selling and supporting a BEV is very different from a EREV hybrid like the Volt.
2) Yes, the Volt pampers its battery like no other EV on the market. But it can do that because it is not range constrained. The Bolt will most likely use a much larger percentage of the battery than the Bolt.

I don't disagree that the Bolt will likely have a longer lasting battery than the Leaf 2. But that is only one aspect of the car. We will not be able to compare them head-to-head for another 6-9 months. But the comparisons will come. And Nissan will be able to match much of the Bolt's specs, at least on paper. They may lose their lead, but it would be foolish to count them out of the race.

 

[DucRider]

Nissan can release MY2018 as early as Jan 1, 2017. I stand by my prediction of Spring 2017, we will see Leaf 2.0 as a 2018 model with a 60kWh battery.

Unlike you, I'm not afraid to name my source - Carlos Ghosn.

If Ghosn has gone on record with the above, please provide a link. Nissan has not made (and will not make) any announcement of the new LEAF until very close to the release. No need to make sales of the current LEAF fall off the edge of the table any more than they already have.

I'll stand by my prediction of Fall 2017 or more likely early 2018 for the 60 kWh version. I think we'll see an announcement of an upgrade to the existing LEAF in the next couple of months.

I'm not "afraid" to reveal my source. It's someone I speak to directly (not sure if you called Ghosn or he called you ), and there's an implied non-disclosure that I choose to honor.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Nissan can release MY2018 as early as Jan 1, 2017. I stand by my prediction of Spring 2017, we will see Leaf 2.0 as a 2018 model with a 60kWh battery.

Unlike you, I'm not afraid to name my source - Carlos Ghosn.

If Ghosn has gone on record with the above, please provide a link. Nissan has not made (and will not make) any announcement of the new LEAF until very close to the release. No need to make sales of the current LEAF fall off the edge of the table any more than they already have.

I'll stand by my prediction of Fall 2017 or more likely early 2018 for the 60 kWh version. I think we'll see an announcement of an upgrade to the existing LEAF in the next couple of months.

I'm not "afraid" to reveal my source. It's someone I speak to directly (not sure if you called Ghosn or he called you ), and there's an implied non-disclosure that I choose to honor.

Oh, Carlos and I go way back. We're tight. :lol:

Nissan hasn't made any official announcement. But Ghosn made a statement last year about the next Leaf coming at the end of their "Power 88" plan, which happens to end on March 31, 2017. I can't find the original statement (it was a while ago) but here is a reference to it:

the next generation, longer range LEAF is tentatively scheduled to arrive in Q2 2017 according to the company, which is just after Nissan’s current “Power 88” 5 year plan ends in Q1 of 2017.

http://insideevs.com/longer-range-2016-nissan-leaf-coming/

We'll know soon enough. I won't be heartbroken if I'm off by 6 months. I will be surprised if they don't beat the Model III to market.

 

[SeanNelson]

Nissan also has much more real-world experience with BEVs than GM.

...the Volt has been produced for about the same amount of time and it too is a BEV, albeit with a range extender.

1) BEV refers to all-electric vehicles. The Volt does not count as a BEV. Selling and supporting a BEV is very different from a EREV hybrid like the Volt.

Well then we'll have to agree to disagree. For my money, building a car that can run on electricity alone as well being a gas-engined hybrid whose battery and powertrain have been as reliable as the Volt's shows that GM has more than enough experience to build a world class EV.

 

[SeanNelson]

(duplicate post, please ignore)

 

[laev]

We will have to wait n see how Nissan pimps out the 2018 Leaf to make a decision that doesn't have too much speculation to it

 

[Aidan]

We will have to wait n see how Nissan pimps out the 2018 Leaf to make a decision that doesn't have too much speculation to it

Yes that is partly true but we are talking about the 2017 Leaf which imo will not beat out the Bolt

 

[GetOffYourGas]

We will have to wait n see how Nissan pimps out the 2018 Leaf to make a decision that doesn't have too much speculation to it

Yes that is partly true but we are talking about the 2017 Leaf which imo will not beat out the Bolt

If Nissan introduces the 2018 Leaf in spring of 2017 (as I predict they will), then why isn't it valid to compare with the Bolt? I know the thread title is 2017 Leaf, but that's mostly semantics.

Regardless of when it arrives, the next-generation Leaf will have to compete with the Bolt, or else give up the US market. I don't see Nissan giving up, so I assume they will do what they can to compete. Even if that competition is based more on price than on features.

 

[DucRider]

Regardless of when it arrives, the next-generation Leaf will have to compete with the Bolt, or else give up the US market. I don't see Nissan giving up, so I assume they will do what they can to compete. Even if that competition is based more on price than on features.

The 200 mile bar set by the Bolt and Model 3 is oneof the main reasons the new LEAF will be delayed until 2018.

the next generation, longer range LEAF is tentatively scheduled to arrive in Q2 2017

Things have changed in the year+ since that statement. Moving from their 150 mile target to 200+ (along with some other improvements - can you say "active thermal battery management"??) has slowed things a bit.

They're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place - if they say "Don't buy the Bolt/Models 3, our improved 200+ mile LEAF will be out on XXX their current sales levels will take an even bigger hit. They are already off~35% from last years down year (anticipation of the 30 kWh LEAF took the brunt of the blame last year).

 

[JimmYK]

I highly doubt it.

 

[WetEV]

(along with some other improvements - can you say "active thermal battery management"??)

I hope not.

There is a point to active thermal battery management. I agree.

But not for everyone, everywhere.

For a commuter car, in the cool, wet Pacific Northwest, active thermal management will decrease battery life, cost more energy, cost more money, and reduce reliability.

For a long driver with multiple QCs per day, in Death Valley, CA, active thermal management is probably a must.

Depending on where you are on this scale will set your acceptance of passive vs active thermal management.

 

[SeanNelson]

(along with some other improvements - can you say "active thermal battery management"??)

For a commuter car, in the cool, wet Pacific Northwest, active thermal management will decrease battery life, cost more energy, cost more money, and reduce reliability.

For a long driver with multiple QCs per day, in Death Valley, CA, active thermal management is probably a must.

Depending on where you are on this scale will set your acceptance of passive vs active thermal management.

It's not practical to build variants of a car for different climatic conditions, and even if it were I strongly suspect that most buyers in the Pacific Northwest would be happier with better thermal management anyway. I live in Vancouver BC and I certainly am.