For those of us hoping to cross-shop Bolt-Leaf-Tesla3

[ScooterCT]

Here is today's news on the new Leaf. Chevy made it easy for some of us to cross shop, just because of the delayed roll out across the USA. So if I have to wait till July for the Bolt to arrive in CT, I might as well wait two more months till September and see if I like the Leaf better (and as a bonus, the Tesla 3 details should at least be released, even if I can't buy it till late 2018).

No disrespect intended to anyone who already bought a Bolt. Just useful news for those of us who are still waiting for it to appear in our states.

http://insideevs.com/new-nissan-leaf-september-2017/

 

[phil0909]

Here is today's news on the new Leaf. Chevy made it easy for some of us to cross shop, just because of the delayed roll out across the USA. So if I have to wait till July for the Bolt to arrive in CT, I might as well wait two more months till September and see if I like the Leaf better (and as a bonus, the Tesla 3 details should at least be released, even if I can't buy it till late 2018).

No disrespect intended to anyone who already bought a Bolt. Just useful news for those of us who are still waiting for it to appear in our states.

http://insideevs.com/new-nissan-leaf-september-2017/

Eh, perhaps. You can of course cross shop whatever you like. But what Nissan officially says is that the Leaf will be "on sale before the end of the year." Which is suspiciously identical to what GM said, and delivered, for the Bolt, except the Bolt was delivered in 2016 rather than 2017. Sounds to me like you should expect to wait about a year longer for a Leaf than a Bolt. Of course, it's possible Nissan's rollout could be quicker next year than GM's this year. But it could also be slower...

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'd put money on Nissan rolling out nationwide much quicker than Chevy. See also previous updates to the Leaf - the 2013 overhaul and the 30kWh battery. When they say "by the end of the year", I suspect that someone in CT would be able to buy one in 2017. Even if they have to go "all the way" to NY to do so.

 

[ScooterCT]

I'm OK with Jan 2018 availability. If you need 200+ miles RIGHT NOW, obviously you need to go out tomorrow morning and buy a Bolt or a used Tesla. If you don't, I think it kind of makes sense to watch and wait. It reminds me a whole lot of the integrated chip era in the 80s, where you'd buy a leading edge PC only to find it an comparatively obsolete hunk of junk six months later. That's also why I'm listening so carefully to all you lease advocates out there.

EV development (vehicle, battery, charge infrastructure) is just in the fast lane right now. Blink and you will miss something.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm OK with Jan 2018 availability. If you need 200+ miles RIGHT NOW, obviously you need to go out tomorrow morning and buy a Bolt or a used Tesla.

Or better yet, lease one, like I did. My best friend, expecting to follow me with a leased Bolt EV in February, when his Volt lease ended, caved when the Mary Barra (CEO of GM) promised NAV was missing from the initial batch of Bolt EVs, and his local Chevy dealer promised a software update to correct this problem, but no date certain. So he instead took over the 20 months remaining on a leased Tesla Model S.

If you don't, I think it kind of makes sense to watch and wait. It reminds me a whole lot of the integrated chip era in the 80s, where you'd buy a leading edge PC only to find it an comparatively obsolete hunk of junk six months later. That's also why I'm listening so carefully to all you lease advocates out there.

Steve Jobs famously said that if you continue to wait for technology to improve, you will never buy anything!

EV development (vehicle, battery, charge infrastructure) is just in the fast lane right now. Blink and you will miss something.

I put my "deposit" down for my Bolt EV at the dealer in July 2016 for promised delivery in "late 2016."

It arrived on January 3rd, as I was downtown serving jury duty! :lol:

 

[ScooterCT]

>> Steve Jobs famously said that if you continue to wait for technology to improve, you will never buy anything!

Well, there's a difference between always waiting for technology to improve, and waiting for technology to reach a point at which it becomes reasonably mature, highly usable, and cost effective. Any engineer can point you to something like these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_life_cycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle

Each of us sits on a different spot on the EV adoption curve. Some, like the cool people in this forum who've bought Bolts (you guys rock!) are early adopters leading the way for the rest of us. Some, like me and a few others, are a few steps behind, waiting for a package where we need to make fewer compromises. The vast majority of the auto-purchasing public is waaaaay behind, waiting for EVs to reach cost, performance, and comfort equivalency (or supremacy) with gasoline vehicles.

If you led the charge to the future (Gen 1 cars like the Leaf, Tesla Roadster & S etc), kudos to you. If you're in second wave (Gen II cars like the Bolt, Leaf II, Tesla 3), kudos for you. If you're patiently waiting for the third (and biggest) wave, kudos to you too. None of them invalidates the others.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Bolt is scheduled for CT in May, not July, but you can go to MA now and get one.

But you might as well wait if you can, and see how it'll compare to the others.

Also gives time for GM to work the bugs out and offer better deals.

 

[Sigmasailor]

In Europe (Netherlands) the Bolt future seems unsure. First rumors were April (2017), than May, June. Now I hear fall or maybe next year.
Good that Elon is getting ready and tooled up to produce 10k Tesla Models 3 a week later this year; it will give something to choose.
The Bolt will be Opel Ampera E in Europe; but GM sold Opel to PSA last week. Don't really now if GM is willing to share their technology with the French (competitors).

Is it a coincidence the the E and 3 are very similar (like in mirror image)?

 

[dandrewk]

I don't necessarily consider myself an early adopter. EVs have been around awhile, and the electric traction motor predates the ICE. GM, with the successful Volt, has already shown it can build an EV, even if it's only EV some (most) of the time.

Still, the technology is nascent, so the strong recommendation is to lease (assuming you can live with the mileage limitations). That way, you are covered if somebody comes up with a car that can recharge 200-300 miles range in under 10 minutes. At the end of three years, the outmoded Bolt then becomes GM's problem.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Is it a coincidence the the E and 3 are very similar (like in mirror image)?

No. Tesla wanted to use Model E, but Ford already has the copy-right on that. So they went with 3. Close enough for them, different enough to avoid copy-right issues.

 

[Anonymous]

At the end of three years, the outmoded Bolt then becomes GM's problem.

Not the way leases work!

The Lease Company/Bank buys the Bolt EV at the inception of the lease. GM is paid in full.

The problem, if any, after 3 years accrues to the lease company.

 

[Schnort]

Except most of these leases are being offered by GM Financing

 

[Anonymous]

I know that.

In 2008 GMAC was shuttered...

You need a primer in corporate finance?

 

[Sigmasailor]

Is it a coincidence the the E and 3 are very similar (like in mirror image)?

No. Tesla wanted to use Model E, but Ford already has the copy-right on that. So they went with 3. Close enough for them, different enough to avoid copy-right issues.

So, how can Opel (GM or now Peugeot) use E when it is a Ford copyright?

 

[Anonymous]

Is it a coincidence the the E and 3 are very similar (like in mirror image)?

No. Tesla wanted to use Model E, but Ford already has the copy-right on that. So they went with 3. Close enough for them, different enough to avoid copy-right issues.

You cannot copyright a non-descriptive version of the letter "E" not in the USA at least; trademark, yes!

 

[Sigmasailor]

Got it: it is the combination of model and E?

 

[michael]

The patent copyright and trademark laws in this country are a disgrace if someone can actually control the use a a letter of the alphabet

 

[Schnort]

I know that.

In 2008 GMAC was shuttered...

You need a primer in corporate finance?

So you're saying that GM Financial is not a "wholly owned captive finance subsidiary of General Motors", and as such it's losses aren't eventually reflected upon GM (through loss of value of the subsidiary)?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Is it a coincidence the the E and 3 are very similar (like in mirror image)?

No. Tesla wanted to use Model E, but Ford already has the copy-right on that. So they went with 3. Close enough for them, different enough to avoid copy-right issues.

You cannot copyright a non-descriptive version of the letter "E" not in the USA at least; trademark, yes!

Sorry, MichaelLAX is right. It's a trademark, not a copyright. I'm no lawyer, and apologize for the misuse of terms. There is a not-so-subtle difference which I don't really pay attention to.

Anyway, here's a little more information:

http://insideevs.com/ford-motor-company-filed-for-model-e-trademark-rights/

Also notice that this is the "United States Patent and Trademark Office" The Opel Ampera-E is not called such in the United States. The Model 3 is an international name for Tesla, I presume.

 

[SeanNelson]

The patent copyright and trademark laws in this country are a disgrace if someone can actually control the use a a letter of the alphabet

After generations of it's "x86" architecture as seen in microprocessors such as the 80286, 80386 and 80486 (which became known as the "286", "386" and "486"), Microsoft tried to patent "586" to prevent rival AMD from using it. When told that they couldn't patent a number, Microsoft came up with the name "Pentium" for their next generation of processors instead.