Winter Driving, what’s your experience?

[ArthurL]

Just got back yesterday from Vancouver BC. I spent 45 minutes giving my Metallic Grey Bolt a quick scrub down and towel dry after a 390 km drive from Vancouver BC over the Coquihalla Summit. I had done it once before during the Summer and it worked out fine. This return trip was a toss up on even attempting it based on the temperature, a mix of rain low and snow high, fog, road conditions, reduced range due to the cold, the distance between the level 3 chargers along the route and my new and required Michelin xIce snow and muds that had already demonstrated that they indeed were not low resistant. The alternative route would have required a stop at one of the two level 3’s which hadn’t had a post on Plug Share since August. That was not reassuring. It would have also added an additional two and a half hours to the trip.

After a 97 percent charge in Chilliwack we began the climb. Rule 1, not heater. The wife had her fuzzy blanket and I had the steering wheel heater and occasional seat heater. Dressed appropriately it was fine. The only issue is the window fogging but the occasional crack of the window took care of that.Rule 2, if there is no ice on the road use cruise control and keep your speed down. When I could I was at 88 kmh. Wipers were on constantly for two hours and I’m not sure what effect that might have on range.

By the time I got to West Kelowna level 3 I had 90 km.....thing is...from the summit down I gained 38 km. Noting that last trip during the summer with the equipped tires I got 64 km regen. All due to the mix weather related issues and tires.

Another issue was the back window. The road scum that gets thrown up back there is amazing. Even using wiper the rear cam was like looking thru dirty water. The wash took care of that....did I mention the 36F temp. Never thought I’d see the day.

Today I had to run some errands....and the snow had caught up with us. Slush, Ice, flying crap. Baby was being assaulted. Below freezing temps...drove a distance of 18 km around town...finished using 32 km worth of energy. Good thing I hibernate in the winter.

Wheel wells fill with slush. Tight area around tires and when they begin to freeze during short stops you can hear the grind of wheel against ice. There seems to be holes on the underside where slush that melted would pour out of.

Question I haven’t looked up yet....Seat warmer passenger side turns on without using energy settings. Is it set to auto start when temps are at a certain temp and sensors?

Winter is here....is it there?

 

[SeanNelson]

Wow, I'm impressed that you attempted that journey in those conditions, and with snow tires to boot. Chilliwack to West Kelowna would be around 290 kilometres, correct? You're braver than I. I would have taken the Crowsnest with it's more closely-spaced fast chargers and (due to the lower elevations) less severe weather. I've been hoping that they'd upgrade the DCFC in Merritt with a CCS plug to make the Coq route more palatable in those kinds of conditions.

Good to know that the Michelin X-Ice tires worked well for you. I've been very impressed with them on my Prius C and I'm planning to get a pair for the front wheels of my Bolt.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm planning to get a pair for the front wheels of my Bolt.

Don't put snows on just the front wheels! They will work fine 90% of the time and you will think the setup is ok, and then some icy or windy drive will see the car going into a spin, or at least going sideways when the rear tires lose traction while the front ones don't. If you are going to use just two snow tires, put them on the REAR wheels. It's counter-intuitive, but that is much less likely to result in a spin. Much better still, get four snow tires installed. I drove a Camry with good all-seasons in the rear and snows in the front for several Winters. The one day I encountered a crosswind on an icy highway, and the car tried to swap ends three times in five minutes. Never again.

 

[ArthurL]

Sean....if I hadn’t done it in the summer and the westward leg this trip I never would have tried it in those conditions but I have a lot of faith in this car. I gave it an estimated 20 percent degradation over the summer trip (played with calculator sitting in Chilliwack charging. Changed my mind three times before I left...lol) The regen on the connector was on my side as well but I did sweat it going up the grade out of Merritt until I hit the summit. We really need a level 3 in Merritt and another in Hope as a back up. The one we really need for winter is Kamloops. That will make a Bolt run to the coast in winter a better alternative route out of Vernon. A longer drive but lower altitude.

 

[SeanNelson]

Don't put snows on just the front wheels! They will work fine 90% of the time and you will think the setup is ok, and then some icy or windy drive will see the car going into a spin, or at least going sideways when the rear tires lose traction while the front ones don't.

I've driven with snows only on the front drive wheels ever since I bought my first car in 1976. Never had a problem. I don't rely on snows to keep me from sliding, that's what prudent driving is for IMHO. What I need the snows for is to get me going when summer tires can't.

 

[rocstar]

I am considering buying a Bolt, and was just about to post this question. Thanks for sharing your experience!

I live in Western NY and am used to driving small compact cars with manual transmissions (I currently drive a 2001 Toyota Echo, which I bought new). I've never had winter tires, since I mostly drive in the city or on the highway. I am pretty comfortable with winter driving, just keeping my foot off the brake in slippery conditions and downshifting to slow down as needed. I can't deal with deep snow, obviously, but they keep things pretty well plowed around here.

I wonder how the driving the Bolt would compare? I imagine the regenerative braking is not so different from what I am doing when I downshift in my stick shift. Are winter tires a must-have?

Also, what impact on range should I expect during the cold weather months? I currently have a 50-55 mile roundtrip commute, mostly highway driving, with no charging available during the day.

 

[SeanNelson]

...(played with calculator sitting in Chilliwack charging. Changed my mind three times before I left...lol)...

Ha! You sound like a man after my own heart!

Yeah, I really hope they upgrade the chargers in Merritt, Hope and Kamloops. Everywhere else between the Mainland and the Okanagan is well provisioned, but the Coquihalla is really lacking.

 

[SeanNelson]

I am pretty comfortable with winter driving, just keeping my foot off the brake in slippery conditions and downshifting to slow down as needed.

I haven't driven the Bolt in slippery conditions yet, but my experience with one pedal driving suggests that it will be a snap. In the cars I've driven before you have to move your foot between the brake and the accelerator when you find that you're slipping, but with one pedal driving modulating the pedal between braking, coasting and accelerating is super intuitive, easy, and instantaneous with just slight changes in foot pressure. I have a feeling it's going to be great to drive in the snow.

I wonder how the driving the Bolt would compare? I imagine the regenerative braking is not so different from what I am doing when I downshift in my stick shift. Are winter tires a must-have?

I agree that downshifiting in a front-wheel drive car should be very similar to regen braking in low-traction conditions.

Of course everyone's conditions and driving styles are unique, so I can't really say whether you're going to need them or not. If the roads are mostly clear when you're driving then probably not - but you never know when you're going to get a dump of snow overnight or during the day before you leave work where it can be challenging to get from where you're parked to a plowed road.

Also, what impact on range should I expect during the cold weather months? I currently have a 50-55 mile roundtrip commute, mostly highway driving, with no charging available during the day.

I can't possibly imagine that kind of a commute being an issue in the Bolt no matter how bad the weather is. The only situation where I can imagine a cause for concern is if you have to plow through a few inches or more of freshly fallen snow for a substantial portion of the distance.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Don't put snows on just the front wheels! They will work fine 90% of the time and you will think the setup is ok, and then some icy or windy drive will see the car going into a spin, or at least going sideways when the rear tires lose traction while the front ones don't.

I've driven with snows only on the front drive wheels ever since I bought my first car in 1976. Never had a problem. I don't rely on snows to keep me from sliding, that's what prudent driving is for IMHO. What I need the snows for is to get me going when summer tires can't.

I also drove with snows in front only for about 25 years with no real issues. The problem is that once the "right" conditions set up the car will spin. If it's icy corners then you'd have to drive 5MPH to avoid it. Crosswinds on icy highways would require driving at 15MPH. Once you've used snows on all 4 wheels you'll wonder why you never did it before. And a heavy little car like the Bolt will want to break the rear tires loose in corners if the front ones have better grip.

 

[PackardV8]

I wonder how the driving the Bolt would compare? I imagine the regenerative braking is not so different from what I am doing when I downshift in my stick shift. Are winter tires a must-have?

I also drove with snows in front only for about 25 years with no real issues. The problem is that once the "right" conditions set up the car will spin. If it's icy corners then you'd have to drive 5MPH to avoid it. Crosswinds on icy highways would require driving at 15MPH. . . . And a heavy little car like the Bolt will want to break the rear tires loose in corners if the front ones have better grip.

We've driven Saabs for forty years and the only time they've ever done me wrong is on slick downhill curves. Downhill, all the weight is on the front wheels and compression braking is enough to slow the fronts while the rears are rolling free; the rear comes around. After the second time, I learned to shift into neutral if there is any question as to having to back off the throttle going into a downhill curve. When all four wheels are rolling free or under equal braking, no worries.

The Bolt may be the same, only worse, as the regenerative braking using "L" is stronger than compression braking in gear. Probably not good idea to use that in slick conditions. I'll play around with it where there's no chance of anyone coming up hill.

Once you've used snows on all 4 wheels you'll wonder why you never did it before.

X2 - back when everything was rear drive cars/trucks is where the cheap-john-only-two-snows got started. As mentioned above, it's darn near suicidal to have snows only on the front of FWDs; surprised you made it twenty-five years.

Slightly OT, but even the best winter tires become less effective as the tread wears down. Once they're below 50%, deep snow traction is gone. Long before they're to the wear bars, it's time for new.

jack vines

 

[LeftieBiker]

surprised you made it twenty-five years.

I did know enough to make sure the rear tires were aggressive all-seasons. That forestalled my Date With Disaster - which I did survive, after having to severely correct that heavy '95 Camry several times over the course of two or three VERY long minutes as it tried to spin on a two lane highway.

 

[ArthurL]

Rocstar...

Range degradation.....I averaged 445 km in the summer....yep....445....I’m a big fan of regen driving...well over the 380 km estimated range, I suspected that the 380 projected range was an average for summer and winter. Driving around town since getting home a week ago it guessing it’s pretty close to 20 percent reduction with the temp in the mid and lows 20 F. I’ve followed my same routes around town and where I could go and regen back home driving 12 km and only using 7 km of range I’m using 17 km of range. Winter is a range killer. I’m also wondering if the over night without charging is part of issue. When I start the car the range appears to be what I ended the last trip with but the drop off seems to be exaggerated the first few kilometers.

Driving in low gear/regen mode feels like the car is in down shift all the time when lifting your foot and indeed feels like it stabilizes the car on downhills that are icy.

On an earlier question of heated seats coming on automatic....the seats have sensors that can tell if someone is occupying it....it haas sensors for outsid temp...so I’d seat is occupied and temps are low the bottom of the seat heats up.....but if passenger seat is vacant you can touch the seat and it is cold to the touch.

 

[ArthurL]

Thinking....Seat heater in back seats and back seat “package warning” setting. On the way back from Vancouver we had several objects lefts on the back seats for easy reach access. I just thought about the package warning setting that I have had set since first getting the car....if you open back door...put package or child in seat...then get in start car....arrive at destination and get out close front door...the horn will give two quick honks as a reminder something is in the back. Since this is using the weight sensor, does the car think the back seat is occupied and turn those heaters on during cold weather? The seat heaters don’t appear to use much energy but if the back seat is on it has to reduce range somewhat. When I go out tomorrow I think I’ll put something on the seat and see if this is the case.

 

[PackardV8]

With the instant EV torque, OEM tires and slick streets, the traction control gets quite a workout. I was taking every safe opportunity to learn the behavior. The Bolt seems more benign than anything with similar torque. (BTW, does anyone know the front/rear weight distribution?) Wheels for snow tires are on order and the Nokian Hakkapilita R2s will be a good addition.

jack vines

 

[ArthurL]

Lots of ice on the road and still mid 20’s F. The Michilin XIce, no issue. They are a bit loud...lot of crunch. Even on a dry street it can sound like I’m driving on gravel. When doing a punch start the torque steer is worse than with the standard issue Michelin’s. Laying rubber just doesn’t happen. More of a skid. Sad.

 

[SeanNelson]

Thinking....Seat heater in back seats and back seat “package warning” setting.

I don't believe that the "package warning" system uses any sort of sensor in the rear seat - it's based on whether or not you open one of the back doors within some pre-set time before starting to drive.

 

[ArthurL]

Right you are Sean. Only the front seats have weight sensors.

18F last night. Lost 10km range overnight on startup, but, 5 km of driving used up 20 km. Return trip back only used 8km. Not a hill thing. I think it takes the car a little time to catch up with the initial overnight discharge from the cold.

I’m gonna ‘spirament with the level 1 charger cord tonight to see if that will maintain a trickle charge. I’ve got my level 2 but suspect that would be more of a vampire feed overnight keeping it charged to 100%. If not I’ll have to abandon my use of the local free level 3 charger during these extreme cold temps and keep her plugged in to the level 2.

 

[electricbolt]

I have a reservation for a 2018 Bolt but one thing I haven't thought about is the winter driving and range loss.

My daily commute going to work is about 135km and where I live it can get to about -20 to -25 celsius. So lets say it is about -15c and it is snowing with snow on the road plus maybe use the heater a bit to defrost or defog the front windshield and plus also add the fact that I plan on getting Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded winter tires how much will I suffer in range if I add all this up. Should I worry?

 

[SeanNelson]

My daily commute going to work is about 135km and where I live it can get to about -20 to -25 celsius. So lets say it is about -15c and it is snowing with snow on the road plus maybe use the heater a bit to defrost or defog the front windshield and plus also add the fact that I plan on getting Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded winter tires how much will I suffer in range if I add all this up. Should I worry?

If it's 135km round trip then I think you'll be fine. But if it's 270km (135km there and another 135km back again) then you may need to charge at work in those kinds of conditions.

 

[rocstar]

Driving around town since getting home a week ago it guessing it’s pretty close to 20 percent reduction with the temp in the mid and lows 20 F. I’ve followed my same routes around town and where I could go and regen back home driving 12 km and only using 7 km of range I’m using 17 km of range. Winter is a range killer. I’m also wondering if the over night without charging is part of issue. When I start the car the range appears to be what I ended the last trip with but the drop off seems to be exaggerated the first few kilometers.

That would make sense if the battery isn't being warmed up while plugged in. Can you see if it is using more of the battery power for battery conditioning than you were seeing before?

Driving in low gear/regen mode feels like the car is in down shift all the time when lifting your foot and indeed feels like it stabilizes the car on downhills that are icy.

Great, that's what I was hoping. I have a feeling it will be be an adjustment for me moving from a stick shift no matter what, so I will probably want to practice in a parking lot and get a sense of how it handles.