BMW man likes Bolt EV

[oilerlord]

Jupe, I'm taking another look at the i3 REx now that used ones are so cheap (my wife is looking to replace her 330). I found one used in Palm Springs with less than 400 miles on it for ~$25,000, but there are a lot of them around.

Here's a youtube review from an owner that I think nails the essence of the i3, and why it continues to be a special EV. I only drove it once, but was very impressed with it for all the reasons he mentions in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkDNjeLeNWA

 

[Fargoneandout]

What the F is the "thrillist"? Are you seriously putting an obscure food & wine site in the category of "professional car reviews"? Heard of Car & Driver? This is how they described the Bolt's handling:

"The lateral-grip limits are similarly modest, with excess speed in slower corners causing the Bolt to understeer like a puppy on a freshly waxed floor. "

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/chevrolet-bolt-2017-10best-cars-feature

I'm not at all saying the Bolt isn't a good car. The Bolt won Car & Driver's 10 best award, but only because it was the only car in it's category that was reviewed. Tesla didn't provide a car.

A comparison between an i3 and a Bolt is apples & oranges. One is an upscale, lightweight, carbon-fiber performance / luxury car, the other is an economy car. The Model S is generally compared with the Bolt because it's currently the only other 200 mile BEV on the market.

You haven't driven an i3, but you've written it off before you've been behind the wheel. Your claim of being a "BMW man" isn't credible.

I own a BMW currently and have owned two others. My comments stand. But as I said I will drive and i3. As for what sources I cite, I will now quote Motor Trend in the COTY write-up. "Simply put, it's twice the car for half the price of a BMW i3," guest judge Chris Theodore said. "A better car, better package, much better handling, twice the range."

 

[Fargoneandout]

and taking umbrage because I claim to be a BMW man even though I didn't compare my Bolt to the BMW you wanted me to is just silliness. It should go without saying that we all take our own paths to the cars we buy. I bought a Bolt because it compares favorably in my opinion to past cars I have enjoyed driving. If you want to make an i3 versus Bolt comparo feel free. I think the the i3 is ugly, short legged, wildly overpriced, and rode like a jittery mule as a passenger. Why if I am driving a 328i should I have to get an i3 in order to have a legitimate take on the Bolt? lol

 

[Fargoneandout]

I just priced an i3. Deka World to keep it cheap. Range extender version to get 180 mile range. Had to choose the $1k park distance package to keep it close to my Bolt LT. I did it a favor and excluded the Nav, as that seemed like a pretty price to pay to get CarPlay, even though CarPlay may not be an option. $49445 before Federal tax credit or about 10k more than my Bolt.

The only recent comparo I could find for i3 versus Bolt EV was a three-way with something called the Renault Zoe. Bolt was called the winner. Just sayin'.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Why are we jumping on one another for our opinions? If the OP's opinion is that the Bolt is close enough to his 328i to consider a switch, what is wrong with that?

Calling himself a "BMW man" doesn't mean he knows everything about every model BMW. To me, it means to imply a certain level of performance and road worthiness that he expects from his vehicle.

I, for one, appreciate all the opinions expressed about the Bolt on this forum. But it's a bit over the top to criticize the opinion stater as "not credible".

 

[michael]

It looks like to lease the Bolt I want will, at the moment, be about 525$ (zero driveaway, 15,000 miles, Premier, including tax) Sum of payments about $18,400

In two minutes I found a CPO I3 with range extender, low miles, well equipped. The total purchase price would be about $24K, including tax and license. I have no idea what it will be worth in three years, but the breakeven is about $6K. I have to believe it will be worth at least that much.

Worth considering....

 

[JupiterMoon]

I just priced an i3. Deka World to keep it cheap. Range extender version to get 180 mile range. Had to choose the $1k park distance package to keep it close to my Bolt LT. I did it a favor and excluded the Nav, as that seemed like a pretty price to pay to get CarPlay, even though CarPlay may not be an option. $49445 before Federal tax credit or about 10k more than my Bolt.

The only recent comparo I could find for i3 versus Bolt EV was a three-way with something called the Renault Zoe. Bolt was called the winner. Just sayin'.

Price wise the BMW is more expensive. Lease wise it is cheaper. Techwise as a package it is more impressive.

The rest is up for options. I've three friends who leased i3s. They really like the cars and even though they don't have the range of the Bolt as pure EVs go, they don't need the range.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Jupe, I'm taking another look at the i3 REx now that used ones are so cheap (my wife is looking to replace her 330). I found one used in Palm Springs with less than 400 miles on it for ~$25,000, but there are a lot of them around.

Here's a youtube review from an owner that I think nails the essence of the i3, and why it continues to be a special EV. I only drove it once, but was very impressed with it for all the reasons he mentions in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkDNjeLeNWA

If you can pick that up...assuming you want to buy, it's a great deal.

For me leasing makes more sense as I write it off anyway but man, for the price of one Bolt lease i could add a $100 to it and lease two i3s. Lol it's ridiculous and I don't get why people are lining up trying to justify it.

 

[Fargoneandout]

Why are we jumping on one another for our opinions? If the OP's opinion is that the Bolt is close enough to his 328i to consider a switch, what is wrong with that?

Calling himself a "BMW man" doesn't mean he knows everything about every model BMW. To me, it means to imply a certain level of performance and road worthiness that he expects from his vehicle.

I, for one, appreciate all the opinions expressed about the Bolt on this forum. But it's a bit over the top to criticize the opinion stater as "not credible".

Thanks.

 

[Fargoneandout]

By the way, at least one i3 owner still had his i3 but prefers his Bolt.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108691_science-guy-bill-nye-buys-chevy-bolt-ev-his-tkth-electric-car

 

[Nagorak]

I have to agree. The main reason why the Bolt is getting the accolades is PURELY due to the range. Not much else. It's not ground breaking in any other way. That's all people see. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the realization that I simply cannot justify paying close to or in excess of $500/month for an economy car that's a long range EV. My next car is going to be an EV no matter what. But paying through the nose is a bit ridiculous.

I don't entirely agree with this. The Bolt, Volt and other EVs perform a lot better than standard economy/green cars. As a driver of many, small fuel efficient cars, I can say the EVs are among the best I've ever driven. Even the Leaf accelerates pretty quick off the line, it just runs out of steam a bit past 30 mph. It's still way better than a Honda Civic or anything else I'd ever drive. Overall performance is much better than with standard economy cars.

These cars may not stack up to sports cars or muscle cars, but as a green driver for once I feel like I'm at least in the same ballpark, even if I'm still out in left field. I have to think the general audience for these cars is more people like me than people driving V6s.

The price for the Bolt is currently a bit high, no argument from me there.

 

[oilerlord]

I don't entirely agree with this. The Bolt, Volt and other EVs perform a lot better than standard economy/green cars. As a driver of many, small fuel efficient cars, I can say the EVs are among the best I've ever driven. Even the Leaf accelerates pretty quick off the line, it just runs out of steam a bit past 30 mph. It's still way better than a Honda Civic or anything else I'd ever drive. Overall performance is much better than with standard economy cars.

These cars may not stack up to sports cars or muscle cars, but as a green driver for once I feel like I'm at least in the same ballpark, even if I'm still out in left field. I have to think the general audience for these cars is more people like me than people driving V6s.

The price for the Bolt is currently a bit high, no argument from me there.

I agree with Jupe. I'm sure we'd all stipulate that EV's perform a a lot better than standard economy/green cars. The point is that the Bolt's place as a game-changer revolves around it's 200 mile range at $30,000 post incentives - not much else. The Bolt's 0.32 drag number is awful. The cabin screams "economy car". Other than it's range, I think that the Spark EV is a better overall offering than the Bolt, and probably handles better too. Other than being a 200 mile EV on a budget, I can't think of one thing that truly separates it from the competition. IMO, the BMW i3 is the antithesis of the Bolt. Love or hate it's styling, you have to give BMW props for a somewhat radical design that was a significant leap in making EV's better. They could have crammed 60 kWh's of batteries in a cheap platform, but instead went in a different direction, and built something quite special. By comparison, GM built a big Sonic with a 60 kWh battery. It could have been so much more, but isn't.

The "general audience" for these cars are EV enthusiasts. That's the problem. We are the 1%.

 

[cab]

Really appreciate the review as a BMW fan (although it is always a love/hate thing with those cars as they age). We've owned a late 80s 5 series, 97 328i sport, 97 M3, 2001 530i, and a 2002 M5. I actually sold the M5 to lease a 2012 Chevy Volt for 3 years. After I test drove it, I was sort of bummed as I knew electric was the future and us gearheads would likely suffer for it a bit.

I knew I would want something sportier in my next ride. I did a 3 day test drive of the BMW i3 rex, and eventually test drove the gen 2 Volt and the Audi A3 e-tron. I live in Texas and Bolt EV won't show up here until August so I will have to wait until the Fall to test it.

Once I got over the i3's looks, I realized BMW had created a little hot hatch. Unfortunately, the 3 day test drive confirmed issues I noticed on our 5 minute original test drive and more. The low speed ride quality left a lot to be desired. Frankly, BMW just got the suspension tuning wrong on this short wheelbase car - way too much chop and head toss from the occupants. The suicide doors are cool when you are standing there showing them off to your friends, and the stink every other minute of ownership. We don't evven have little kids any more and they were still a pain in parking lots, etc. The interior was both cool and goofy - that fiber board on the dash and doors is simply not good looking and, as a bonus, there are shiny bits in it that reflect off the windshield. I would go for the full leather for sure on it, but have to admit the giga interior sort of "suits" the car's odd looks. Freeway ride quality is another area of concern. It is just flat out darty. Ultimately, even though I am still somewhat fond of the fun to drive factor in this car, it just has too many compromises.

I really liked the Audi A3 e-tron's ride and drive, but at 16 miles of EV range, it was sort of "what's the point...I might as well get the S3." I didn't bother to test the BMW 330e for the same reason. Finally, the Volt 2.0 was a bit of a let down. It is a great PHEV, but despite positive reviews, the "fun to drive" factor seemed almost identical to my gen 1 Volt. I expected more. If the A3's EV range had been 25 or 30 miles, I would probably be driving one right now.

Anyway, I look forward to test driving the Bolt EV when it comes here to Texas, and who knows it may offer enough of the i3's dna in a more livable package. Heck, Maybe GM will have fixed the seats (which I have sat in) or even introduced another platform like a true small CUV (or tarted up Buick version).

In the meantime, I'll just live with what I settled on last Summer...a CPO Tesla P85+...which has its own compromises.

 

[oilerlord]

I'll just live with what I settled on last Summer...a CPO Tesla P85+...which has its own compromises.

Welcome to the forum!

I've only put 7,000 miles on my B250e, but I understand where you're going with that. I used to think the Model S was the holy grail of EV's. It isn't. Sure, it has big range, but it's also a big, heavy, 5000 pound car. My Tesla powered Mercedes is cut from the same cloth in a 4000 pound package. No doubt, another 800 pounds of batteries would give my car a 290 mile range too, but does that alone move the technology forward?

I like how BMW approached building their EV. Keep the car lightweight using carbon fiber. Use recycled materials. Acknowledge the fact that 100 miles is more than adequate, and offer a small, lightweight gasoline generator for longer trips.

 

[SeanNelson]

The point is that the Bolt's place as a game-changer revolves around it's 200 mile range at $30,000 post incentives - not much else. ... The cabin screams "economy car". ... Other than being a 200 mile EV on a budget, I can't think of one thing that truly separates it from the competition.

I think I pretty much agree with this assessment. It's easy to get caught up in the hype around the car, but I came down to earth again after I drove down to the Portland Auto Show so I could actually sit in one and take it on a short test drive.

Rather than being astounded at the Bolt, my experience gave me more respect for my Prius C, which for me is pretty much every bit as utilitarian as the Bolt is. The Prius C doesn't have quite as much headroom in the front, but it's well more than adequate for me. It doesn't have quite as much legroom in the back as the Bolt does, but it's got enough and it's certainly way roomier back there than the Volt is. And my car doesn't have the extra hidden cargo compartment under the floor, but it does manage to stow a spare tire down under there which is actually more important to me. And the Prius C's cargo area is almost exactly the same size.

So as far as I'm concerned the Bolt doesn't really represent any "step up" from my Prius C aside from the fact that it's electric and that it has a lot of new features that I like, such as the surround vision, front and rear cameras, etc. Although I could get most of those in a new Prius C.

Don't get me wrong - I think the electric range and price point are a big deal, and that's the reason I'm planning to buy a Bolt. And it's also true that they did a good job on the layout (they didn't screw up the design by having the battery impinge on passenger space the way the Volt's battery does).

But yeah, it's essentially just a basic hatchback that happens to be electric. It's the electric range and groundbreaking price that make it unique. Right now that's enough - but in the coming years GM's challenge will be to find ways to keep it competitive when other electric cars start rolling out with similar ranges and prices.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the other manufacturers compete with the Bolt over the coming few years.

 

[phil0909]

So as far as I'm concerned the Bolt doesn't really represent any "step up" from my Prius C aside from the fact that it's electric and that it has a lot of new features that I like, such as the surround vision, front and rear cameras, etc. Although I could get most of those in a new Prius C.

I generally agree, but you're omitting one other big difference: The Prius is painfully slow, and the Bolt isn't. Many people don't care about that, but many do. If you don't, then you may be a Prius customer...

 

[cab]

So as far as I'm concerned the Bolt doesn't really represent any "step up" from my Prius C aside from the fact that it's electric and that it has a lot of new features that I like, such as the surround vision, front and rear cameras, etc. Although I could get most of those in a new Prius C.

I generally agree, but you're omitting one other big difference: The Prius is painfully slow, and the Bolt isn't. Many people don't care about that, but many do. If you don't, then you may be a Prius customer...

Yes, indeed it was lack of a significant performance bump that kept me out of a gen 2 Volt after my gen 1 Volt. The Bolt reviews almost universally tout that while it isn't a sports car, it is fun to drive. The 0-60 figures show it is quick and EVs in general "drive quicker" than their ICE counterparts with similar performance stats at anything less than full throttle. Most single speed EVs are, of course, always in the "right gear" for acceleration. I would pay more for one a bit more tarted up though. Truth be told, I probably prefer the Volt or even i3 rex PHEV model for maximum flexibility. I had assumed BMW would put a decent sized battery in its 3 series plug-in, but instead we got 14 mile of range there. The next gen 5 series is out and it's the same story ther for that plug-in.


And yes, Oiler, the Tesla is BIG!

 

[EldRick]

Just for the record, while the Spark EV (I have a 2016) is entertaining to drive, it's mostly because of the willing motor.
The car has 650 lbs. of batteries over and aft of the rear wheels, which makes for a high moment of rotational inertia biased toward the rear, and that weight comes around slowly and always feels like it wants to push you into oversteer.
That's not a big issue only because the hyperactive traction control and low-grip tires keep you from really cornering very fast anyway.
Even with wider wheels and summer performance tires the Spark EV is not a great-handling car, IMHO, it's just OK.

 

[SeanNelson]

So as far as I'm concerned the Bolt doesn't really represent any "step up" from my Prius C aside from the fact that it's electric and that it has a lot of new features that I like, such as the surround vision, front and rear cameras, etc. Although I could get most of those in a new Prius C.

I generally agree, but you're omitting one other big difference: The Prius is painfully slow, and the Bolt isn't. Many people don't care about that, but many do. If you don't, then you may be a Prius customer...

The Prius C is plenty fast enough for me - I haven't been in any situations where I needed it to be any faster. Especially because I am very conscious of gulping down any more gallons of gas than necessary.

But yeah, I have no doubt the Bolt is a lot quicker and it would be fun to floor it without having to worry about wasting gas. Since almost all the electricity here in Vancouver Canada is hydro-generated I would have the luxury of driving like a maniac with zero worries about carbon emissions.

And that's really the thing that frustrates me the most about the Prius C. I call it a "gateway drug" to electric vehicles. It gives you this tantalizing smidgeon of a hint of what it's like to drive electric, and then the gas engine comes on. You can get it to stay in electric mode, but you have to be unreasonably patient with it (and hope that there's nobody behind you).

It's not the car's fault - it's not really the electric vehicle that I want it to be. It's really an ICE car that uses a battery and electric motor for efficiency. But for me at least, even though it's amazingly fuel efficient, it still feels like a gas guzzler.

 

[Nagorak]

Yeah, after driving an EV I don't think I could ever go back. It's really nice hitting the accelerator and just having the car accelerate without hesitation. It's not so much the overall power and speed (of which the Leaf is not that impressive), but simply that it responds instantly, whereas in a gas car (at least the ones I've driven) you hit the accelerator and then something happens maybe half a second to a second later when the transmission finally manages to get into gear. I suppose manuals tend to be a bit more responsive, but then you have the hassle of shifting gears, which gets old after a while.