BMW man likes Bolt EV

[phil0909]

The Bolt ... has proper tires and a longer wheelbase.

But only an inch longer, right? 102" vs 101" for the i3. Does not seem significant.

 

[Nagorak]

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=26372 shows Germany's electric power generation.

44% coal
10% natural gas
01% oil
15% nuclear
31% renewables

The article mentions that the grid there has difficulty handling regional imbalances in generation and consumption.

In addition to EVs another huge application of battery tech will be to store energy to help balance the grid. Since CA is on track to be 50% renewable by 2030 and it looks like Germany is as well, we're going to need that true storage. Indirectly that will also help bring EV battery costs down.

I suppose that may not help with Germany's regional imbalances though. That sounds like a different issue.

 

[boltage]

In addition to EVs another huge application of battery tech will be to store energy to help balance the grid. Since CA is on track to be 50% renewable by 2030 and it looks like Germany is as well, we're going to need that true storage. Indirectly that will also help bring EV battery costs down.

I have read some suggesting that EVs themselves could be the (mobile) storage batteries, though obviously that would require them to be able to provide power in greater quantities than they currently do to cell phones plugged into their USB ports.

 

[JupiterMoon]

A comparison between an i3 and a Bolt is apples & oranges. One is an upscale, lightweight, carbon-fiber performance / luxury car, the other is an economy car.

Agreed that the i3 has the markers of "upscale": it's expensive, the badge on the nose won't shame you at the country club, and it has a nice interior---although this undone a fair bit by the Pacer-meets-moon-buggy styling. And it is commendably lightweight due to the carbon fiber. But it is neither a performance car not a luxury car. It is a city car. Under 45 mph, it is an incredibly pleasant and relaxing place to spend time, with the airy cabin and handsome materials and optional upgraded stereo. Over 45 mph, out on the freeway, it is a different story. The bicycle tires follow every groove in the highway, the bluff sides catch every crosswind, the steering is abrupt and has all the feel of a Sega controller, and the short wheelbase ensures that every resulting twitch is felt. Not just disappointing and unpleasant: scary. (The ride at speed is no great shakes either.)

The Bolt is quicker (considerably quicker than the i3 REx), and has proper tires and a longer wheelbase. It behaves like a real car, a good car, at any speed.

I love the i3 for what it is: the best short-range city car you can buy. When our Fiat 500e lease is up, we'll consider one for that role.

A bit dramatic. I have three friends who have i3's and I spend quite a bit of time in one of them as it's a business partner of mine. I don't see any of the issues you state on the i3. The car handles like a champ...it's nimble. It's quicker off the line and probably the same as the Bolt up to 60. It's better quality, it's a more innovative vehicle overall. It has more high-tech in it in general. It's much lighter, more cutting edge.

It's very quiet at speed so I have no idea what you're talking about there and it's certainly not twitchy as far as I can tell. The Bolt is as tall as the i3 and just as boxy so if the i3 is going to chucked around by wind so will the Bolt.

Four complaints I do have about the i3. 1) The ride is harsh at low speeds IMO. 2) The lack of soft regen makes it tiring to drive on the freeway 3) the REX is noisy and gruff 4) the steering wheel is awful.

 

[Schnort]

I had an i3 BEV for two years and I don't think it's a particularly loud car, even at speed (but I've never had a "luxury" vehicle to compare it to). I had the 19" tires, though, and not the 20"s, which are supposed to be louder.

I did find it twitchy and over-responsive when driving at speed, though. Not that I'd let go of the steering wheel or climb into the next seat, but occasionally you have to reach over and grab something from the next seat, or get something your infant dropped in the back floorboard by reaching for it blindly. I NEVER really felt comfortable doing that in the i3, because of how sensitive the wheel was at speed.

 

[oilerlord]

I have three friends who have i3's and I spend quite a bit of time in one of them as it's a business partner of mine. I don't see any of the issues you state on the i3. The car handles like a champ...it's nimble. It's quicker off the line and probably the same as the Bolt up to 60. It's better quality, it's a more innovative vehicle overall. It has more high-tech in it in general. It's much lighter, more cutting edge.

It's very quiet at speed so I have no idea what you're talking about there and it's certainly not twitchy as far as I can tell. The Bolt is as tall as the i3 and just as boxy so if the i3 is going to chucked around by wind so will the Bolt.

Four complaints I do have about the i3. 1) The ride is harsh at low speeds IMO. 2) The lack of soft regen makes it tiring to drive on the freeway 3) the REX is noisy and gruff 4) the steering wheel is awful.

We were at the dealership today getting a recall done on my wife's 330. They had used i3 on the lot. I forgot how small the thing is, which is one of the reasons why we chose the B-Class ED. Range and efficiency aren't everything. They also had a 330e PHEV in the showroom. My wife is in love. Pretty sure the decision has already been made.

 

[SparkE]

We were at the dealership today getting a recall done on my wife's 330. They had used i3 on the lot. I forgot how small the thing is, which is one of the reasons why we chose the B-Class ED. Range and efficiency aren't everything. They also had a 330e PHEV in the showroom. My wife is in love. Pretty sure the decision has already been made.

Yeah, I know how THAT goes. I used to think it was funny - not so much anymore (when it happens to me).

 

[Fargoneandout]

A two week report is that I prefer the Bolt EV to my 328i Msport. Funny how quickly I got used to the Bolt. I drove them both today, back to back, and the Bolt's ride is far smoother with less road noise, some of which can likely be attributed to tire differences (Michelin Energy All Seasons on the Bolt EV and Michelin Pilot Super Sports on the 328i). Oddly enough over the same route the 328i seemed to wallow a bit compared to the Bolt EV and nothing has given me reason to doubt my original views as the OP in terms of handling: the Bolt EV isn't as fast in a straight line and while the steering feels equally crisp, there is no doubt that the Bolt isn't as quick laterally and doesn't corner at speed as well. Haven't yet had time to take up the i3 challenge and I decided to put the summer tires I bought in storage and leave the OEM tires on the Bolt EV.

Oddly, the Bolt and the 328i seemed to lend the same sense of speed, but at different actual speeds. Dunno if it is the Bolt's higher position, more upright seating position, greater angle of view over the hood down to the road, or something else entirely, but 50 in the Bolt seems as fast as 70 in the BMW.

 

[sgt1372]

A two week report is that I prefer the Bolt EV to my 328i Msport.

Really?

I've only had my Bolt for a week and have used it only to go to the grocery store, post office and gym. Put only 30-40 miles on it since I got it home from the dealer. Just went on my 1st "long" drive in the Bolt -- a 118 mile loop today.

It was ok but I would NEVER prefer driving it to driving my 335i. Performance and handling in the 335i (w/a Cobb tune, Michelin Super Sports, KONI FSD shocks and a Mishimoto intercooler) just makes for a much faster, more stimulating and far superior ride.

I think many would consider the Bolt's ride to be somewhat harsh (mainly because of the low resistance tires and 38 lb inflation level) but I'm use to that kind of ride in the BMW, MR2 and Ford F250.

The seats are also quite firm and started to feel a bit too "hard" and much less comfortable than my other cars & truck but I never felt like mine was too narrow or that something was poking at me as some have complained.

I drove the Bolt VERY conservatively almost always at/below the speed limit and always mindful of the mileage -- because I wanted to see how accurately the range estimator was in determining the mileage covered and remaining during the drive.

Driving at the speed limit and not doing anything too crazy, the range estimator seemed pretty spot on.

I left the garage w/231 miles showing as the mid range estimate but that quickly dropped to 220 and that figure remained constant during the remainder of the trip. Ended up w/118 miles traveled and 102 miles as the estimated remaining range.

However, I did execute a couple of high speed merges and passes by hitting the sport button and accelerating up to around 90 mph. Didn't feel like I hit the speed limiter because the car continued to accelerate until I backed off the accelerator.

Only did this a few times. Didn't want to waste too much battery power "speeding." I also had the AC/Heater turned off to save power, except to defrost the windows a couple of times.

Not being able to keeping the AC/Heater on made the air get stale. So, I had to open the windows occasionally to get come fresh air. Fortunately, it wasn't raining at the time. However, I just learned that I can turn the fan on alone w/o drawing too much power and will try doing this from now on.

All in all I found driving the Bolt just "ok." It certainly doesn't "excite" me the way that driving my 335i or MR2 do but it isn't meant to do that. It's a sound and functional car with satisfactory power and handling that needs to be driven "sensibly" in order to maximize its range.

Driving it that way frankly is a bit boring to me but it's not a sports car. It's just designed to get you from Point A to Point B w/in its effective driving range as safely and efficiently as possible w/o the use of gasoline.

It does that just fine and I'm happy doing that for local use around town or in heavy commuter traffic but I will never consider it as "fun" to drive as my BMW out on the open road.

 

[phil0909]

that needs to be driven "sensibly" in order to maximize its range.

No, it doesn't. You drive to the gym, post office and grocery store. Why on earth would you want to torture yourself with boring driving to maximize range you don't need and don't use??? I can't say the Bolt handles better than your BMW, but it sounds like your Bolt boredom is largely self-inflicted!

 

[sgt1372]

Why on earth would you want to torture yourself with boring driving to maximize range you don't need and don't use???

One of my uses of the Bolt (other than just for short drives locally around town) will be for commutes into San Francisco which is a 150-160 mile round trip for me.

So. if my effective driving range is only 220 miles, I will definitely will need drive "sensibly" (as "boring" as that might be for me) in order to maximize its range. Based on today's test drive, that should leave me with about 60-70 miles in reserve. More than enough to avoid concern.

However, if I turn on the AC/Heater and drive the way that I normally do in my BMW, I'm sure that I would reduce the effective range of the car by at least 30-40 miles, which would leave me w/only about 20-30 miles in reserve and cause me considerable worry on the way home.

Of course, one way around that is to put the car on a charger while I'm in town but that's inconvenient and I'm often in town only a few hours, not enough time for enough of a charge unless I can find a DCFC but something I can do if need be.

Point is, I'm still learning how far I can drive the car based on what I use in the car and how I drive it. Perhaps I'll later learn that I can just turn on everything and drive it the way I drive my other cars/truck to and from the City w/o concern.

I haven't determined that yet but, even if I could, I still wouldn't find driving the Bolt as enjoyable as driving my BMW.

Doesn't mean that the Bolt isn't a good car. I think it is. Otherwise I wouldn't have leased it. It's a different kind of car that serves a different purpose and provides a different kind of driving experience. One that I find ok but not preferable to the one provided by my BMW.

Just apples and oranges.

 

[dndrich]

Having driven my Leaf many times to San Francisco, I can tell you there is a bunch of public L2 charging available. So, if you are there, find an L2 on PlugShare, and by all means, top off! Just to name a few, Performance Arts Garage, City Hall Garage, Sutter Stockton Garage, all have good L2, and I have yet to not find a space. Now, I live a little closer, so I will not have to find public charging when going to SF. It is around 120-130 mile round trip for me.

 

[sgt1372]

Having driven my Leaf many times to San Francisco, I can tell you there is a bunch of public L2 charging available. So, if you are there, find an L2 on PlugShare, and by all means, top off! J

Understood but the reason that I waited for the Bolt with it's 200+ mile range was so that I would NOT have to do that when I drove into the City.

 

[dndrich]

Sure. Me too. You should be able to do that as above. And, if you have a day where it is questionable, there are plenty of CCS DC quick chargers along the way if you had to make a 15 minute stop.

 

[Fargoneandout]

A two week report is that I prefer the Bolt EV to my 328i Msport.

Really?

I've only had my Bolt for a week and have used it only to go to the grocery store, post office and gym. Put only 30-40 miles on it since I got it home from the dealer. Just went on my 1st "long" drive in the Bolt -- a 118 mile loop today.

It was ok but I would NEVER prefer driving it to driving my 335i. Performance and handling in the 335i (w/a Cobb tune, Michelin Super Sports, KONI FSD shocks and a Mishimoto intercooler) just makes for a much faster, more stimulating and far superior ride.

I think many would consider the Bolt's ride to be somewhat harsh (mainly because of the low resistance tires and 38 lb inflation level) but I'm use to that kind of ride in the BMW, MR2 and Ford F250.

The seats are also quite firm and started to feel a bit too "hard" and much less comfortable than my other cars & truck but I never felt like mine was too narrow or that something was poking at me as some have complained.

I drove the Bolt VERY conservatively almost always at/below the speed limit and always mindful of the mileage -- because I wanted to see how accurately the range estimator was in determining the mileage covered and remaining during the drive.

Driving at the speed limit and not doing anything too crazy, the range estimator seemed pretty spot on.

I left the garage w/231 miles showing as the mid range estimate but that quickly dropped to 220 and that figure remained constant during the remainder of the trip. Ended up w/118 miles traveled and 102 miles as the estimated remaining range.

However, I did execute a couple of high speed merges and passes by hitting the sport button and accelerating up to around 90 mph. Didn't feel like I hit the speed limiter because the car continued to accelerate until I backed off the accelerator.

Only did this a few times. Didn't want to waste too much battery power "speeding." I also had the AC/Heater turned off to save power, except to defrost the windows a couple of times.

Not being able to keeping the AC/Heater on made the air get stale. So, I had to open the windows occasionally to get come fresh air. Fortunately, it wasn't raining at the time. However, I just learned that I can turn the fan on alone w/o drawing too much power and will try doing this from now on.

All in all I found driving the Bolt just "ok." It certainly doesn't "excite" me the way that driving my 335i or MR2 do but it isn't meant to do that. It's a sound and functional car with satisfactory power and handling that needs to be driven "sensibly" in order to maximize its range.

Driving it that way frankly is a bit boring to me but it's not a sports car. It's just designed to get you from Point A to Point B w/in its effective driving range as safely and efficiently as possible w/o the use of gasoline.

It does that just fine and I'm happy doing that for local use around town or in heavy commuter traffic but I will never consider it as "fun" to drive as my BMW out on the open road.

Yup. Really. 328i has MPSS and runs the Active8 Chip, so while it wouldn't hang with a 335i and a tune it is plenty forceful. But I feel every lump in the road, which I don't with the Bolt. The Bolt is quicker off the line unless I have the 328i in sport mode and feel like juicing it - when I am just driving normally it takes a bit for the 328i to get rolling. I like the fact that there are no hard tranny hangs during shifts, which my ZF unit seems prone too. The only thing I do miss is the power the BMW has above 60 mph, where the differences are stark, and the BMW's definite advance in sliding around corners. But, as my wife keeps reminding me, driving 90 is a bad idea anyway. I also love the quiet of the Bolt EV. Maybe I'm just in need of automotive equivalent of The Blue Pill now (LOL) but I do prefer driving the Bolt EV. My plan is to ditch the BMW and buy an old MX-5. I miss the manual anyway.

Call me crazy but the Bolt EV kinda reminds me of '80s Civics. You could hardly hear the motor in those Civics, they handled crisply, you sat where you could see down on the road making them feel faster than they probably were, and they were sprightly.

I'm not trying to denigrate your views - I may get bored with the Bolt EV - but the torque steer doesn't bother me and I find it a hoot to drive.

 

[phil0909]

One of my uses of the Bolt (other than just for short drives locally around town) will be for commutes into San Francisco which is a 150-160 mile round trip for me.

So. if my effective driving range is only 220 miles, I will definitely will need drive "sensibly" (as "boring" as that might be for me) in order to maximize its range. Based on today's test drive, that should leave me with about 60-70 miles in reserve. More than enough to avoid concern.

However, if I turn on the AC/Heater and drive the way that I normally do in my BMW, I'm sure that I would reduce the effective range of the car by at least 30-40 miles, which would leave me w/only about 20-30 miles in reserve and cause me considerable worry on the way home.

My commute is 80-90 miles round trip, so Bolt is perfect for me. If my commute were too long to do it comfortably in the Bolt, I would not have gotten the car. Life is too short to put yourself through range anxiety (or range annoyance) on a regular basis. I'd have just kept using the BMW in your situation, but I hope you enjoy your Bolt. Perhaps you'll find that 20 miles margin is enough, and you can enjoy your commute after all.

 

[oilerlord]

I would NEVER prefer driving [a Bolt] to driving my 335i. Performance and handling in the 335i (w/a Cobb tune, Michelin Super Sports, KONI FSD shocks and a Mishimoto intercooler) just makes for a much faster, more stimulating and far superior ride.

All in all I found driving the Bolt just "ok." It certainly doesn't "excite" me the way that driving my 335i or MR2 do but it isn't meant to do that. It's a sound and functional car with satisfactory power and handling that needs to be driven "sensibly" in order to maximize its range.

Driving it that way frankly is a bit boring to me but it's not a sports car. It's just designed to get you from Point A to Point B w/in its effective driving range as safely and efficiently as possible w/o the use of gasoline.

This thread lives in an alternative reality that also compares the handling characteristics between a shopping cart and an Indy car. I don't think this discussion is supposed to make sense as it's wrong on so many levels - but sadly we keep it alive. :roll:

 

[GetOffYourGas]

This thread lives in an alternative reality that also compares the handling characteristics between a shopping cart and an Indy car. I don't think this discussion is supposed to make sense as it's wrong on so many levels - but sadly we keep it alive. :roll:

This is your opinion, and you have expressed it multiple times. Others, such as myself, have expressed why we appreciate the comparisons. If this discussion bothers you, might I suggest you unsubscribe to the thread and stop reading it?

 

[sgt1372]

Yup. Really. 328i has MPSS and runs the Active8 Chip, so while it wouldn't hang with a 335i and a tune it is plenty forceful. But I feel every lump in the road, which I don't with the Bolt. The Bolt is quicker off the line unless I have the 328i in sport mode and feel like juicing it - when I am just driving normally it takes a bit for the 328i to get rolling. I like the fact that there are no hard tranny hangs during shifts, which my ZF unit seems prone too. The only thing I do miss is the power the BMW has above 60 mph, where the differences are stark, and the BMW's definite advance in sliding around corners. But, as my wife keeps reminding me, driving 90 is a bad idea anyway. I also love the quiet of the Bolt EV. Maybe I'm just in need of automotive equivalent of The Blue Pill now (LOL) but I do prefer driving the Bolt EV. My plan is to ditch the BMW and buy an old MX-5. I miss the manual anyway.

Call me crazy but the Bolt EV kinda reminds me of '80s Civics. You could hardly hear the motor in those Civics, they handled crisply, you sat where you could see down on the road making them feel faster than they probably were, and they were sprightly.

I'm not trying to denigrate your views - I may get bored with the Bolt EV - but the torque steer doesn't bother me and I find it a hoot to drive.

Hey, it's all good. If you like the Bolt better than your 328, that's fine w/me. Enjoy!

FYI, I took the Bolt out on the freeway yesterday for just a short 20-30 mile drive. It was fully charged and I wasn't worried about depleting the battery, so I just put my foot in it like I normally do.

It was Sunday and traffic was light enough to cruise at 75-80 and execute high speed passes and on-ramp merges at 85-90 mph. It wasn't "boring" but boy did it suck power!!!!

After my sedate 118 mile test drive, I was getting over 4 miles/kwh and after yesterday's foot stomping jaunt, that dropped to somewhere between 2-3 miles/kwh (closer to 2 than 3 -- can't tell exactly what the number is based on the Efficiency History graphs) and my average efficiency dropped from 3.6 over 225 miles to just 3.2 in 256 miles.

Also after a full recharge, my estimated max is only 220 miles (it was 256 before) and my mid range max is only 194 (that was 220 before). So, how you drive the car obviously makes a HUGE difference it the driving range you can expect.

So, FWIW, it looks like I can drive the way I please on short 20-30 mile trips but for my long long trip drives to/from the City, I'll definitely need to be on my best driving behavior in order to maximize the range and to eliminate any need to "top off" while in town.

Oh well, that's just the way it is -- at least until they come out w/a 300 mile/90 kw version of the Bolt or when I get a used Model S w/that capability built into it already.

LOL!!! :lol:

 

[oilerlord]

This is your opinion, and you have expressed it multiple times. Others, such as myself, have expressed why we appreciate the comparisons. If this discussion bothers you, might I suggest you unsubscribe to the thread and stop reading it?

I'll admit that it was weird reading at first, but on the contrary, I now find the comparison quite funny. It took me a while, but I finally got the joke. I'm thinking that the OP is having a good laugh too, as any "BMW man" would have with a comparison like this. Got me hook, line, and sinker. Very clever.