DC FAST CHARGING

[sgt1372]

FWIW, my dealer (Capitol Chevy in SJ) orders all of its Bolts from Chevy w/DCFC already installed. So, for anyone buying/leasing a Bolt at Capitol Chevy, it's not an "option" at all. Just $750 added to the base price.

However, I'm glad they included it and I can see why they would -- mainly to avoid inventory problems, I believe. The only reason for Chevy not to do so is to keep the MSRP down. I can't imagine that it's all that more expensive to add the DCFC outlet at the factory but I can see how it would be a PITA (if not impossible) to try to add it later.

My dealer also included the false trunk floor cover for $100, which is an outrageous price for a piece of felt covered MDF, but its something that I have found absolutely necessary. It too should be included with every Bolt and I really can't imagine why it can't be included w/o increasing the MSRP.

 

[devbolt]

DC Fast charging is a factory option only. It cannot be added by the dealer. Just as are the rest of the packages for the Bolt (Comfort and Convenience, Driver Confidence I & II, etc). The only dealer installed options seem to be most of the stuff in the accessories section of the build your own on Chevy's site, and a couple of interior things like the false floor, door sill plates, different floor mats, etc. Easiest way to tell is to configure a Bolt with no options, and then when you get to interior options try to add certain things. If you try to add heated seats for example, it automatically adds the Comfort and Convenience package plus everything else contained in that package.

 

[Pigwich]

I'm shocked that GM is even selling Bolts without DCFC - Where does the OP live?

 

[dandrewk]

I'm shocked that GM is even selling Bolts without DCFC - Where does the OP live?

Why? Not everyone wants or needs this $500 option. Why make them pay for it?

side note - I got my first EV (Leaf) in 2012. Since that time, I've only used DCFC once - ironically, when I drove up to Santa Rosa for the Leaf's lease buyout. Different strokes...

That said, I wouldn't have gotten my Bolt unless it had DCFC. Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm shocked that GM is even selling Bolts without DCFC - Where does the OP live?

Why? Not everyone wants or needs this $500 option. Why make them pay for it?

side note - I got my first EV (Leaf) in 2012. Since that time, I've only used DCFC once - ironically, when I drove up to Santa Rosa for the Leaf's lease buyout. Different strokes...

That said, I wouldn't have gotten my Bolt unless it had DCFC. Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Typical {edited} of why every Bolt EV owner needs the DCFC option; said by a Bolt EV owner who admits he would only acqure {sic} a Bolt EV with one!

This is not an 80-100 mile Leaf! This is a 230 mile Bolt EV!

There is only ONE reason why it was not included standard on EVERY Bolt EV - it would have pushed the MSRP past the $37,495 that Chevy proudly claims is only $29,995 after the $7,500 federal tax credit!

Not every first time EV buyer is that sophisticated and yes, mistakes will happen; mistakes that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place!

The {edited} on this board don't make the matter any better by haranguing and harassing what is now an already suffering Bolt EV owner/leasee, instead of being a bit more sympathetic, given the fact that this problem stems from GM's marketing ploy to begin with!

There is NO legitimate reason to sell a Bolt EV without a DCFC adapter; as shown by the practice in Canada!

{Mod: edited to remove disparaging comments of other posters}

 

[gpsman]

Most of Californians have access to DCFC.

Most of THE REST OF THE COUNTRY does NOT.

Thus DCFC makes sense in CA and a few other Metropolitan areas.

DCFC is not a needed option for owners in most areas.

I am in CA and have found some DCFC that are Free or as low as $1 per hour. So I use it at least once a week. Its cheaper than charging at home!

I use 120 volts to charge at work to add 50 miles per 12 hour shift. I never, ever use a L2 charger.

 

[SeanNelson]

Most of Californians have access to DCFC.
Most of THE REST OF THE COUNTRY does NOT.
Thus DCFC makes sense in CA and a few other Metropolitan areas.

This may be true today, but all indications are that DCFC will be far more available across the whole country well within the lifetime of the Bolt EVs currently being manufactured. That's going to make Bolts without DCFC harder to sell, which will probably offset most of the cost of buying it in the first place (assuming you buy rather than lease).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Most of Californians have access to DCFC.

Most of THE REST OF THE COUNTRY does NOT.

Persuasive as posting in all caps is, that's still misleading. EVGo charging stations are springing up all over - even in Upstate NY, after years of no QC stations at all. They all have both CHAdeMO and SAE Combo charging cables. Also, if a GM dealership sells Bolts, they are required to have a DCFC station. So while almost all of the square miles in the US have no DCFC, most regions do have it available now. Granted, EVGO is not cheap, but even for occasional "emergency" use these stations are very welcome.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm shocked that GM is even selling Bolts without DCFC - Where does the OP live?

Why? Not everyone wants or needs this $500 option. Why make them pay for it?

side note - I got my first EV (Leaf) in 2012. Since that time, I've only used DCFC once - ironically, when I drove up to Santa Rosa for the Leaf's lease buyout. Different strokes...

That said, I wouldn't have gotten my Bolt unless it had DCFC. Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

I have a friend in Buffalo, NY who bought a Bolt without it. He is very educated on EVs. He owned an original Tesla Roadster, and also owns a Volt and an ELR. The only DCQCs within his range are actually across the boarder in Ontario, Canada. He insisted on buying without the port, to save the $750 (not $500) option.

That said, I disagree with the wisdom of his choice. It's only a matter of time before NY installs chargers along the Thruway, which would make his trips to Syracuse a breeze. Currently, he drives here, parks at a L2 charger for several hours, and then drives home, all on back roads at low speeds (<60mph).

 

[btmspox]

Also, if a GM dealership sells Bolts, they are required to have a DCFC station.

Is this happening? Have people used DCFC at GM dealerships? I noticed searching for Chevrolet, Chevy, or GM on PlugShare return little results. I live in Maine and bought my Bolt a ways away as there weren't any dealers within an hour stocking Bolts. I saw some chargers that looked like L2 there but hadn't thought to ask about them.

 

[SparkE]

Also, if a GM dealership sells Bolts, they are required to have a DCFC station.

Is this happening? Have people used DCFC at GM dealerships? I noticed searching for Chevrolet, Chevy, or GM on PlugShare return little results. I live in Maine and bought my Bolt a ways away as there weren't any dealers within an hour stocking Bolts. I saw some chargers that looked like L2 there but hadn't thought to ask about them.

If a GM dealership sells Bolts, they are required to have a DCFC station.

If a dealer sells Bolts yes, they are required to have a DCFC. Dealer who do NOT sell Bolts are not required. But the dealer is NOT required to make it available to the public - it can be in (next to) their service dept and reserved for customer/dealer use.

I have used a DCFC at a dealer. Last night, actually. My closest dealer bought (and installed) two : one in the service dept, and one out in front of the dealership. (The 'fast charger' in question was the 24 kW/60 Amp slow 'fast' charger.)

 

[Anonymous]

Also, if a GM dealership sells Bolts, they are required to have a DCFC station.

Is this happening? Have people used DCFC at GM dealerships? I noticed searching for Chevrolet, Chevy, or GM on PlugShare return little results. I live in Maine and bought my Bolt a ways away as there weren't any dealers within an hour stocking Bolts. I saw some chargers that looked like L2 there but hadn't thought to ask about them.

The DCFC at Keyes Chevy is a fast, easy to use, almost always available L3 charger and they provide fresh baked chocolate chip cookies! It charges my Bolt EV in about 1.5 hours! Most times I bring lunch, or a snack, with me...

The only downside is the LCD screen is washed out by the sun and we have to memorize the touchscreen steps to push due to this mishap!

I "educated" a Bolt leasee I met over at a Whole Foods L2 charger about the L3 at Keyes, and we went over to Keyes and she was given some friction due to the fact she purchased from a different Chevy dealer. Since the salesman giving the friction was MY salesman, I was able to smooth over the problem!

 

[Anonymous]

Most of Californians have access to DCFC.
Most of THE REST OF THE COUNTRY does NOT.
Thus DCFC makes sense in CA and a few other Metropolitan areas.

This may be true today, but all indications are that DCFC will be far more available across the whole country well within the lifetime of the Bolt EVs currently being manufactured. That's going to make Bolts without DCFC harder to sell, which will probably offset most of the cost of buying it in the first place (assuming you buy rather than lease).

I have to "second" all of the common sense expressed by Sean in this post!

 

[Pigwich]

Is this happening? Have people used DCFC at GM dealerships? I noticed searching for Chevrolet, Chevy, or GM on PlugShare return little results. I live in Maine and bought my Bolt a ways away as there weren't any dealers within an hour stocking Bolts. I saw some chargers that looked like L2 there but hadn't thought to ask about them.

I'm actually pretty shocked at how many DCFS units were in Maine (and congrats on getting your Bolt up there, you're probably the first)

There's like...what three or four combo units in greater Portland alone, and J plugs fairly frequently too, especially downtown. Maine is going to be a tough market however, everybody's so terrified of the winters (yet there are plenty of Pruis rolling around) I've seen exactly TWO Leafs in Portland, and I was driving one of them.

Overall however, I was surprised at how well equipped southern Maine is for EVs.

 

[btmspox]

I'm actually pretty shocked at how many DCFS units were in Maine

All but one are EVGo stations at Hannaford supermarkets along the interstate in southern Maine. I haven't used one yet, but a trip down to Portland and back with a stop to charge would be about right. I'm actually headed there this weekend but I'm going to spend the nights with family and will work something out there. The only real problem is northern Maine, but we don't go there often and could always take another vehicle.

The DCFCs in southern Maine are fine for any of our plans. It'd be preferred if there were multiple chargers at each location or if they were faster, but we won't need them more than a couple times a year. Mostly I was interested in the lack of DCFCs showing up in PlugShare if the dealerships were all supposed to get them.

(and congrats on getting your Bolt up there, you're probably the first)

There are a few dealerships in southern Maine stocking them. Goodwin Chevrolet in Brunswick is where we got ours. One person there claimed they were the leading Bolt dealer in Maine. Chevy's inventory search does list more Bolts there than the other dealers. The original Bolt I went down to look at was sold before we got time to drive down. They also told a story of ordering a Premier without the DCFC option as their first sale and the person who bought it ended up angry about that. So there seems to have been a few before me. My salesperson was friendly and nice, but walked me through things like how the physical buttons for the vent controls worked, but wasn't very knowledgeable about topics like one-pedal driving. That was fine, I didn't intend to ask questions, but I'm sure they'll have a hard time selling to people who aren't showing up ready to buy though.

 

[btmspox]

(and congrats on getting your Bolt up there, you're probably the first)

I realized later that, yes, ours is definitely the only Bolt I've seen on the road, so likely the first in this part of Maine.

 

[oilerlord]

Yes, dealers SHOULD know more about EV's and be prepared to help with the education. But, anyone who relies on any salesperson to have their best interest as a top priority is a fool. Yes, a good salesperson will do their best to find out steer a customer in the right direction. But relying on a random salesperson to do it every time?

If the OP walked in to the dealership and stated: "I want to lease the white Bolt EV you show in stock."
The response should be" "Great! I just have a quiz you need to take about EV's to see if this is the best vehicle for you. "?

A good salesperson would have some sort of conversation about some basics - winter range, where will you charge, how did you here about the Bolt, etc. But at some point their job is to close the deal. If the customer wants to buy, who are they to argue?

That's a little harsh, Gary. A lot of people go into dealerships with an expectation that the salesperson knows something about the cars they are selling. While that may be naive, I blame the dealership more than the buyer. It isn't fair to compare a trailer hitch option with the DCFC option. The buyer knows going in they need to tow a boat, but probably has no clue about L3 charging.

We shouldn't expect every first-time newbie EV buyer to know all of the acronyms, and tech stuff. EVSE? L1/2/3? The charger is in the car? You mean, the car should go 238 miles, but might end up being only 140 mile in winter? All these things we take for granted because we learned about them along the way, but newbies are new to this. Give the guy a break. Caveat Emptor always applies but there is also responsibility on part of the dealership to provide a basic measure of information. Informing the buyer about fueling options should be mandatory. I get why he's pissed.

And really, why wouldn't GM put DCFC in every car? Considering the importance of DCFC, even with respect to resale value, I think GM deciding to make DCFC an option is somewhat irresponsible - especially when the buyer doesn't even know what it is.

 

[Pigwich]

I think we're actually hitting up against a big problem here, which could quickly devolve into conspiracy theories, and while caveat emptor is always a great principal, a vehicle purchase is a big deal, and a salesperson needs to justify their existence and provide value not only to the dealership (by screwing over the customer as much as possible), but to the customer as well, and they can do this by being knowledgeable about the products they sell so the client can get the product for THEM. If the "value to the customer" test is applied to the original poster's experience, the dealership failed, and few of us ought to be surprised. So why did it happen?

This is where the conspiracy theories could come in, BUT seeing as we're throwing around Latin and philosophy, let's talk about Occam's razor.

These guys sell bajillions of gas powered cars, and some have been doing it forever. Literally, forever. Never sold an electric car, only gas. The Bolt has been out for...6 months now? That's very short compared to forever. It also seems that salesperson turnover at car dealerships can be fairly high, so there's a huge pool of people who know zero about EVs but want to try selling cars out there circulating through dealerships. And 99% of their work is in selling gas cars. As a dealer, why would I bother training a guy who's going to work for me for 3 months about 1% of my business?

And naturally, a customer looks to a salesperson to be the one that's knowledgeable about the vehicle. That's their job, right? And the salesperson wants to appear to be competent so they can make their sales. Up until a few years ago, a car was a car, just put the person in and slap'em in the ass and watch them ride off into the sunset. Gas vs. diesel might be a discussion in a few cases - far more than gas vs electric ever was or currently is, but that's IT. A car was a car, you gas it up, you change the oil, you rotate the tires. Fundamentally all the same, and it's STILL fundamentally the same, 99% of the time anyway. The problem is, when it's not the same, there's a chance that somebody's going to get burned. And what's worse, often the salesperson just makes some shit up. I had a guy tell me the Bolt had manual seats because power seats took too much power. He had never driven an EV, but he was supposedly selling them. I still bought the car, but If some kid can make up stories about something as dumb as the power seats, expect ZERO in the way of knowledge about charging and EV specific features. ZERO. This is not their fault, but there might be ways to make things better.

FOR example, if GM is serious about selling the Bolt (and California is keeping it's clean air waiver BTW, so they still need to be serious) then I might suggest requiring that at least ONE person at each dealership take a class and get some kind of certification in EVs, and they and the salesperson get to talk to sit down with each customer for 10 minutes before the purchase is made so some quality Q+A can be had. Alternatively, maybe GM requires that a salesperson needs to complete a course before they can sell an EV. Imagine a customer comes in and wants a Bolt, but Timmy has to hand the sale off to Omar because Omar is EV certified. Timmy gets squat and is sad, Omar gets the sale, and the next day Timmy goes and does the online course and gets his certificate. Now Omar AND Timmy know ANYTHING about EVs, and can be sure that people who should be in a gas car ARE in a gas car, and those that an EV works for know about that option. Makes sense, right?

Barring that, we just leave it up to the Tesla salespeople to do their job, and they get the CO2 credits, which GM can buy FROM them.

Just my thoughts...

 

[dandrewk]

We are going a bit of topic here, so let join in.

We bought our Leaf in 2012, and the same controversies applied "back then". Some (many) Nissan dealers had very little or no interest in selling the Leaf.

Most assumed it was because SUVs, etc., were easier to sell and had higher profit margins. But let's not forget that new car sales are only a portion of dealership profits, the other being parts and services. A large percentage of new car buyers will only go to their dealership for routine maintenance, even after the warranty expired. EVs don't require oil changes, tune ups, smog checks, and many other inflated service costs. Less service means less profit and fewer return trips to a dealership that craves loyalty. They want you to return often so you can see all the shiny new cars in the showroom.

Not all dealerships behave in this manner, and many (esp. here in the SF Bay Area) have done quite well selling EVs. One great tip for prospective EV owners: Seek out the motivated dealers. You'll get better selection, better advice, and probably a much better deal.

 

[LeftieBiker]

FOR example, if GM is serious about selling the Bolt (and California is keeping it's clean air waiver BTW, so they still need to be serious) then I might suggest requiring that at least ONE person at each dealership take a class and get some kind of certification in EVs, and they and the salesperson get to talk to sit down with each customer for 10 minutes before the purchase is made so some quality Q+A can be had. Alternatively, maybe GM requires that a salesperson needs to complete a course before they can sell an EV. Imagine a customer comes in and wants a Bolt, but Timmy has to hand the sale off to Omar because Omar is EV certified. Timmy gets squat and is sad, Omar gets the sale, and the next day Timmy goes and does the online course and gets his certificate. Now Omar AND Timmy know ANYTHING about EVs, and can be sure that people who should be in a gas car ARE in a gas car, and those that an EV works for know about that option. Makes sense, right?

There are Leaf-specialist salespeople, and Leaf-certified techs, but no real requirement that customers get to see one when they ask about the Leaf. I suspect the same thing will happen with GM.