Hyundai Ioniq Numbers Flatten Chevy Bolt, Toyota Prius

[phil0909]

So, if we are comparing commuter car, the Ioniq wins hands down over the Bolt EV.

No, it doesn't. My commute is 80 miles on the freeway, with some other short trips each day. 238 miles of epa range is comfortable. 124 is not enough. Ioniq looks nice in other ways, but fails as a commuter car for me.

YMMV.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

I sat in the Ioniq in the LA and SD Auto Shows. The console seemed fairly well designed but the windshield is really narrow (just like the Volt) and the seats seemed like they'd be very uncomfortable; they were flat and firm with little bolstering.

Obviously one can only tell so much from just sitting in a show car so time will tell how it really is. Back when I was interested in it, I asked a San Diego Hyundai dealer when they were expecting them, and while they weren't quite sure they did say they exactly to get only a few of them over the entire year of 2017; they said Hyundai planned to start production slow and ramp up based on demand.

This is in contrast to GM which not only hit the ground running but obviously started with just a couple of states and will then expand, as opposed to lightly sprinkling the cars evenly all over.

 

[SparkE]

I just wish that they would put it on sale in the U.S. I've been reading about it for over 6 months, and am (personally) tired of all of the "pat myself on the back" articles about how great it is - WHEN IT ISN'T SOLD YET in North America.

 

[Nagorak]

The efficiency is impressive. That being said, I don't think the car is going to sell well. The thing about 80 miles of range being enough is not an absolute. It's true to the extent it makes an electric car viable for commuting purposes, and many could get by with that range, however it is far from ideal. For the average person to be willing to buy an electric car, I think 200 miles is the magic number.

Now with the Bolt out there as an alternative, I think selling a 100 mile electric car is going to be a huge challenge. Things look better for the Ioniq than the Leaf which not only doesn't have the range it's not even as efficient as the Bolt. However, even at 124 miles the Ioniq is too close to the century mark (if it were closer to 150 I think it would look better from a psychological perspective).

200 miles plus quick charging makes a car viable to drive multiple hundreds of miles (very stupid IMO that the Bolt doesn't have DCQC standard). Right now you can already drive a Bolt from the Mexican border to the Canadian border. When the EVgo Station comes online in Baker you'll also be able to make it to Las Vegas and back. True, you'll have to stop and wait more than you would in a gas car, but it should be doable, even if a bit more of a hassle. With less than 200 mile range it's basically so much of a hassle that it's not even worth the bother.

Although you can get around town with 124 miles of range no problems, I just think that few are going to be satisfied with that, even if it isn't entirely rational. If I were Hyundai I'd try to quickly go back to the drawing board and figure out a way to squeeze in enough batteries to get up to 150 mile range.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

So, if we are comparing commuter car, the Ioniq wins hands down over the Bolt EV.

No, it doesn't. My commute is 80 miles on the freeway, with some other short trips each day. 238 miles of epa range is comfortable. 124 is not enough. Ioniq looks nice in other ways, but fails as a commuter car for me.

YMMV.

I have the same 80 mile (was 120 miles) for 14 years. So, I have been crunching the numbers between the Bolt EV and the Ioniq. The Ioniq will be far more comfortable car to drive on a commute with ACC and other safety features.

The Ioniq unlimited:
Monthly Payment: unknown but thinkg $300-400/month minus $2500 (CA rebate)
Miles: unlimited
Charging cost: Free
Full charge is 124 miles, 80% charge is 99.2 miles.

The Bolt EV:
lease: impossible due to high mileage.
Monthly Payment: $604/month (included the tax credit and california rebate.)
Miles: unlimited
Charging cost: $80/month
Full charge is 238 miles, 80% charge is 190.4 miles.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

I sat in the Ioniq in the LA and SD Auto Shows. The console seemed fairly well designed but the windshield is really narrow (just like the Volt) and the seats seemed like they'd be very uncomfortable; they were flat and firm with little bolstering.

Obviously one can only tell so much from just sitting in a show car so time will tell how it really is. Back when I was interested in it, I asked a San Diego Hyundai dealer when they were expecting them, and while they weren't quite sure they did say they exactly to get only a few of them over the entire year of 2017; they said Hyundai planned to start production slow and ramp up based on demand.

This is in contrast to GM which not only hit the ground running but obviously started with just a couple of states and will then expand, as opposed to lightly sprinkling the cars evenly all over.

Seating is a personal thing. I´ve driven the Volt for 4 years and have no problem with seating for visibility. My wife hates riding in the Volt because of seating and visibility. In fact, we never take the Volt on long distance travel. It´s always her SUV.

Personally, I would not purchase the Ioniq or any EVs coming out right now. Things are changing so rapidly in the auto industry, it makes more sense to lease. Buy a ICE car but lease a EV.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

The efficiency is impressive. That being said, I don't think the car is going to sell well. The thing about 80 miles of range being enough is not an absolute. It's true to the extent it makes an electric car viable for commuting purposes, and many could get by with that range, however it is far from ideal. For the average person to be willing to buy an electric car, I think 200 miles is the magic number.

I agree, the Ioniq will not sell well.

Now with the Bolt out there as an alternative, I think selling a 100 mile electric car is going to be a huge challenge. Things look better for the Ioniq than the Leaf which not only doesn't have the range it's not even as efficient as the Bolt. However, even at 124 miles the Ioniq is too close to the century mark (if it were closer to 150 I think it would look better from a psychological perspective).

200 miles plus quick charging makes a car viable to drive multiple hundreds of miles (very stupid IMO that the Bolt doesn't have DCQC standard). Right now you can already drive a Bolt from the Mexican border to the Canadian border. When the EVgo Station comes online in Baker you'll also be able to make it to Las Vegas and back. True, you'll have to stop and wait more than you would in a gas car, but it should be doable, even if a bit more of a hassle. With less than 200 mile range it's basically so much of a hassle that it's not even worth the bother.

The Bolt EV is not a road trip car. GM has done it again and babied the battery. The DCFC rate on the Bolt EV is terrible.

Although you can get around town with 124 miles of range no problems, I just think that few are going to be satisfied with that, even if it isn't entirely rational. If I were Hyundai I'd try to quickly go back to the drawing board and figure out a way to squeeze in enough batteries to get up to 150 mile range.

The Ioniq has a inferior battery to the Bolt EV. Hyundai could increase Ioniq to 45 kWh just by using the Bolt EV battery cell.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

The only thing Bolt EV has a advantage over Ioniq is the range but with the lack of DCFC both are limited to commuter car. The bolt EV without ACC is really crippled, as far as stop and go rush hour commute.

So, if we are comparing commuter car, the Ioniq wins hands down over the Bolt EV.

Ioniq
1. Most efficient overall, but more importantly, the most efficient in highway speed.
2. Has Adaptive cruise control.
3. Has all the active safety features standard.
4. DCFC standard with 100 kW charger.

Sure, more range would be nice, but I'm leasing from now on because EVs are rapidly changing that owning doesn't make sense.

Welcome to the forum.

I think the Ioniq isn't getting the love it deserves. The more I look into this car, the more I like it. If it's sold in the low $30's (before incentives), it could be a sleeper among the EV crowd. Reviews have been very positive. I really like it's styling too.

Thank you.
I was really impress with the Ioniq, after watching Bjorn video and Fully Charged.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

I just wish that they would put it on sale in the U.S. I've been reading about it for over 6 months, and am (personally) tired of all of the "pat myself on the back" articles about how great it is - WHEN IT ISN'T SOLD YET in North America.

Delaying the US release might be a better choice for Hyundai. Come to the US with 45 kWh battery, that can travel 200 miles on one charge.

 

[oilerlord]

I just wish that they would put it on sale in the U.S. I've been reading about it for over 6 months, and am (personally) tired of all of the "pat myself on the back" articles about how great it is - WHEN IT ISN'T SOLD YET in North America.

Delaying the US release might be a better choice for Hyundai. Come to the US with 45 kWh battery, that can travel 200 miles on one charge.

It's coming:

http://insideevs.com/200-mile-hyundai-ioniq-electric-coming-in-2018/

 

[Jychevyvolt]

I just wish that they would put it on sale in the U.S. I've been reading about it for over 6 months, and am (personally) tired of all of the "pat myself on the back" articles about how great it is - WHEN IT ISN'T SOLD YET in North America.

Delaying the US release might be a better choice for Hyundai. Come to the US with 45 kWh battery, that can travel 200 miles on one charge.

It's coming:

http://insideevs.com/200-mile-hyundai-ioniq-electric-coming-in-2018/

Yup. That's why Hyundai should wait for the US release. Plus, Ioniq will get 4cm (1.5 inch) increase in rear headroom.

 

[oilerlord]

Yup. That's why Hyundai should wait for the US release. Plus, Ioniq will get 4cm (1.5 inch) increase in rear headroom.

I wouldn't assume that Hyundai's motivation is to sell these in quantities significantly above compliance numbers - regardless if it's a 124 or 200 mile EV. I wonder if the Ioniq's platform allows for room for an additional 20 kWh's of battery, or if they need to steal from the cargo area to make it happen.

 

[DanCar]

I wouldn't assume that Hyundai's motivation is to sell these in quantities significantly above compliance numbers - regardless if it's a 124 or 200 mile EV. I wonder if the Ioniq's platform allows for room for an additional 20 kWh's of battery, or if they need to steal from the cargo area to make it happen.

From a former Hyundai employee: it is a compliance car, they throw the batteries where ever they can fit them. Not designed as a pure EV where the batteries are in the floor.

 

[oilerlord]

From a former Hyundai employee: it is a compliance car, they throw the batteries where ever they can fit them. Not designed as a pure EV where the batteries are in the floor.

While my B250e is a textbook compliance car, it's 36 kWh main battery is in the floor. It looks like Hyundai designers also did a good job of developing the Ioniq platform for electrification, so the battery doesn't hamper passenger comfort or cargo space. I'm wondering if they left enough space for another 20 (or so) kWh, or if they have to sacrifice cargo volume to do it.

 

[michael]

The Rav 4 EV is also a textbook compliance car...built on an existing platform, in limited numbers, sold only in California.

Nonetheless, it has a Tesla drivetrain, floor mounted batteries, and with 42 kWh, until the Bolt came out it was the longest range EV on the market apart from the Model S. It also has a 10 kW (40A) built in charger. And it was available on an unlimited miles lease.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

Yup. That's why Hyundai should wait for the US release. Plus, Ioniq will get 4cm (1.5 inch) increase in rear headroom.

I wouldn't assume that Hyundai's motivation is to sell these in quantities significantly above compliance numbers - regardless if it's a 124 or 200 mile EV. I wonder if the Ioniq's platform allows for room for an additional 20 kWh's of battery, or if they need to steal from the cargo area to make it happen.

The Bolt EV has 50% more energy density than the current Ioniq battery. 40-44 kWh is easily achievable.

Long as it satisfies my needs, I really don't care about compliance.

 

[Nagorak]

The whole compliance thing is kind of a short term consideration anyway. By 2025 the ZEV mandate requires 15% of cars in CA to be ZEV. So, eventually just being in compliance means selling a fair number of cars. I think that the smart manufacturers are going to realize that they need to get on the ball or risk being left behind.

 

[oilerlord]

It wasn't my intention to pick at the scab for what is the compliance car debate. Just making a guess that Hyundai probably doesn't care much about how many Ioniq EV's they sell, as long as they move enough to help with compliance numbers. From the reviews I've seen, the Ioniq in its 124 mile form looks like a "normal" car on the inside, with no apparent sacrifices in passenger or cargo space. I'm wondering where Hyundai plans to pack another 20 kWh of batteries in the existing platform.

For me, if giving the car a 200 mile EPA range means losing the trunk, I'd buy the 124 mile version.

 

[Jychevyvolt]

It wasn't my intention to pick at the scab for what is the compliance car debate. Just making a guess that Hyundai probably doesn't care much about how many Ioniq EV's they sell, as long as they move enough to help with compliance numbers. From the reviews I've seen, the Ioniq in its 124 mile form looks like a "normal" car on the inside, with no apparent sacrifices in passenger or cargo space. I'm wondering where Hyundai plans to pack another 20 kWh of batteries in the existing platform.

For me, if giving the car a 200 mile EPA range means losing the trunk, I'd buy the 124 mile version.

I already explained where that extra kWh is coming from. The battery in the Ioniq has 50% less engery density than the Bolt EV. The battery is there but is Hyundai willing to pay more?

 

[oilerlord]

I already explained where that extra kWh is coming from. The battery in the Ioniq has 50% less engery density than the Bolt EV. The battery is there but is Hyundai willing to pay more?

Ok, I must be missing something. The 124 mile Ioniq has a 28 kWh battery. Hyundai has said they have plans to make this car a 200 mile EV. Are you saying that they are simply going to use a different (more energy dense) battery and install it in the same space?