Too much regen in D mode

[oilerlord]

Oilerlord - VW and Hyundai have done it right!
If you get a chance to drive a VW e-Golf (or an Hyundai Ioniq) to see what coasting by default is like - take it!

BTW, and in case you were still wondering, I agree with you. I have driven a VW e-Golf, and absolutely positively prefer it's setup vs 1-pedal driving. I wish my car worked like that too. Clearly, I think a lot of us would like a menu option to set up our EVs to drive that way. Since they don't, I'm ok with the hypermiling inefficiencies of 1-pedal driving vs fiddling with the PRNDL switch or regen paddles.

I think the bigger question is why it's even necessary to hypermile a 238 mile EV that, on a national average, costs less than 8 bucks in electricity to "fill up". Drive more, worry less.

 

[WetEV]

I think the bigger question is why it's even necessary to hypermile a 238 mile EV that, on a national average, costs less than 8 bucks in electricity to "fill up". Drive more, worry less.

Depends on the trip, of course. When driving near the range of the EV, arriving with 20% is much less exciting than arriving with 2%, and even less than arriving on a tow truck.

As you say, worry less.

 

[oilerlord]

Perhaps there is "Too much regen in D mode" - but how about ZERO regen in N mode?

For fun, I played around with flipping into neutral and coasting today. Haven't done that since I bought the car. I humbly retract what I said earlier about coasting just as far with 1-pedal "neutral" if done correctly. It isn't the same (at least with a Mercedes EV). Damn if my car doesn't coast a long way in (actual) neutral. Much farther than my VW in neutral, or really any other car that I've hypermiled.

However, switching into neutral had an unexpected side affect. No regen on the brake pedal. None. When I switched into neutral, my brakes turned into good ol' fashioned friction brakes. Clearly, N disengages more than just the motor in my B250e, but also the entire system that recovers kinetic energy. I guess that's why my car glides so efficiently in N.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my experience. What I gain in coasting distance, I give back in lack of regen on the brake pedal. Just curious, Is this a setup that's related only to Tesla/Mercedes/RAV4EV drivetrains, or does it also happen with the Bolt, Leaf, Focus EV, etc?

 

[SeanNelson]

BUT - it would be EVEN EASIER if there was a "coast" option you could set so that all you need to do is lift your foot from the accelerator completely. No hunting around for that point between "accelerate" and "decelerate".

Interesting thought. I'm surprised no one else came up with that, as the the answer was right in front of us. Thanks Sean!

The very first post in this thread asked "can the car do this?" and there was a discussion of it. For some stupid reason the thread degenerated into a discussion about using "neutral" to coast. But the answer to the original question is "no, you can't, but there should be an option to have the car simply coast with no regen when you've lifted your foot from the accelerator pedal".

 

[oilerlord]

The very first post in this thread asked "can the car do this?" and there was a discussion of it. For some stupid reason the thread degenerated into a discussion about using "neutral" to coast. But the answer to the original question is "no, you can't, but there should be an option to have the car simply coast with no regen when you've lifted your foot from the accelerator pedal".

Read the first post again. Not sure why you believe it "degenerated" into something off topic.

"One disappointing thing is that you can't coast easily in D mode like you can in the Volt. I'd rather use my momentum to keep going rather than having the car slow when I let off the accelerator then have to speed back up again. It is obviously more efficient to avoid the change from kinetic to battery energy then back again. Plus it is more enjoyable to me to have the smooth coast.

The OP wants to coast. He's concerned about momentum, and preserving it for the purposes of efficient driving (as others in this thread are). Why shouldn't we be discussing the use of neutral to coast?

 

[devbolt]

Perhaps there is "Too much regen in D mode" - but how about ZERO regen in N mode?

For fun, I played around with flipping into neutral and coasting today. Haven't done that since I bought the car. I humbly retract what I said earlier about coasting just as far with 1-pedal "neutral" if done correctly. It isn't the same (at least with a Mercedes EV). Damn if my car doesn't coast a long way in (actual) neutral. Much farther than my VW in neutral, or really any other car that I've hypermiled.

However, switching into neutral had an unexpected side affect. No regen on the brake pedal. None. When I switched into neutral, my brakes turned into good ol' fashioned friction brakes. Clearly, N disengages more than just the motor in my B250e, but also the entire system that recovers kinetic energy. I guess that's why my car glides so efficiently in N.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my experience. What I gain in coasting distance, I give back in lack of regen on the brake pedal. Just curious, Is this a setup that's related only to Tesla/Mercedes/RAV4EV drivetrains, or does it also happen with the Bolt, Leaf, Focus EV, etc?

It happens in the Bolt. And the Prius (all variants). Basically neutral means that no electric energy is flowing through the electric motor, either as a generator or as a motor. Just a software bit flip.

 

[Anonymous]

It happens in the Bolt. And the Prius (all variants). Basically neutral means that no electric energy is flowing through the electric motor, either as a generator or as a motor. Just a software bit flip.

How long before we read about someone in neutral coasting downhill* who inadvertently pushed the button and shoves his car into reverse?

*California Vehicle Code Section 21710
The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

 

[WetEV]

How long before we read about someone in neutral coasting downhill* who inadvertently pushed the button and shoves his car into reverse?

That's the quick way to shift into neural with a Leaf. Shift into reverse when traveling forward.

The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

No gears to put into neutral... This is a command to the motor controller, not to any gearbox.

 

[redpoint5]

It happens in the Bolt. And the Prius (all variants). Basically neutral means that no electric energy is flowing through the electric motor, either as a generator or as a motor. Just a software bit flip.

How long before we read about someone in neutral coasting downhill* who inadvertently pushed the button and shoves his car into reverse?

Most newer cars don't allow shifting into reverse when traveling forward beyond a certain safe speed.

*California Vehicle Code Section 21710
The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

Yes, yes, and people shall not exceed the maximum posted speed limit, and they shall signal at every lane change and turn. Turn signals in CA are rare as hen's teeth.

 

[Anonymous]

How long before we read about someone in neutral coasting downhill* who inadvertently pushed the button and shoves his car into reverse?

The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

No gears to put into neutral... This is a command to the motor controller, not to any gearbox.

Good luck convincing a judge that the intention of the California legislature was to exclude a 1-gear electric car from the provisions of this statute!

 

[SeanNelson]

The very first post in this thread asked "can the car do this?" and there was a discussion of it. For some stupid reason the thread degenerated into a discussion about using "neutral" to coast. But the answer to the original question is "no, you can't, but there should be an option to have the car simply coast with no regen when you've lifted your foot from the accelerator pedal".

Read the first post again. Not sure why you believe it "degenerated" into something off topic.

"One disappointing thing is that you can't coast easily in D mode...

He specifically said "coast in D mode". "D mode" is not the same as neutral.

 

[Anonymous]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? And now back to the real issues presented by the OP...

The Bolt EV is clearly different than the Volt 1.0 that I earlier leased.

In my Volt I could coast in D as there was NO regen in that mode

In my Volt, L was the mode for all regen and one foot driving.

I was actually shocked to discover from another Bolt EV driver that she experienced regen in D mode as I always drive in L mode! I am a bit surprised that Chevy made that change. It makes no difference for me, as I always drive in L mode, but I can agree with those who want a "no regen" mode and it should be D.

It should NEVER be N! Not only is it prescribed by law here in California, and for good reason: if and when some quick action is required; to regain control, you should not have to put it back in D or L first!

That being said, Chevy should address the "no regen" abilities of the Bolt EV in a software update and it belongs in D.

 

[EldRick]

Coasting in "Neutral" if there were a clutch to disengage the motor in the Bolt, would disengage about 50% of the braking ability of the car, and would basically be a really foolish thing to do for that reason alone.

 

[devbolt]

It happens in the Bolt. And the Prius (all variants). Basically neutral means that no electric energy is flowing through the electric motor, either as a generator or as a motor. Just a software bit flip.

How long before we read about someone in neutral coasting downhill* who inadvertently pushed the button and shoves his car into reverse?

*California Vehicle Code Section 21710
The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

The car will beep at the driver and remain in neutral. Just like if they tried to hit P at speed. Or try to go from D to R. In my Prii, if you tried to shift from D to R while at speed, it just beeped at you and put itself in neutral.

 

[devbolt]

Both of my Prii had some sort of level of regen in D while coasting. I seem to recall the first generation Volt I drove for a week doing the same thing. My Highlander Hybrid does some regen while coasting as well.

 

[Anonymous]

No: my first generation Volt in D had no regen until you hit the brake.

DON'T try coasting slowly and hitting the P in the Bolt EV! Nasty!!

Better be at a full stop BEFORE hitting the P!

 

[oilerlord]

It happens in the Bolt. And the Prius (all variants). Basically neutral means that no electric energy is flowing through the electric motor, either as a generator or as a motor. Just a software bit flip.

Seems more than just a minor software change, no?. Neutral disengages the mechanical linkage to the drive / generation system which is why there wouldn't be any regen when lifting off the throttle or through the brake pedal.

I'm also interested in another's comment about losing 50% of the braking ability in N, does that actually happen with the Bolt? Though there isn't any regen, my car's brakes are still fully operational while the car coasts in N.

 

[brorob]

I think this is mostly a matter of personal preference. I personally like very aggressive regen, which is very efficient and easy to drive, and even coast, once you get used to it. I've been driving an i3 for 2 years, which has very aggressive regen, and I love it now that I'm used to it. Still haven't been able to test drive a Bolt since they are still very sparse in Michigan, but I'm curious to compare the regen of the Bolt to the i3.

One driving situation that I found the aggressive regen to be almost unsafe though was driving on slippery roads. I had a few scary situations when I drove it in these conditions, while still learning the behavior of the regen brakes. If I took my foot off the accelerator too quickly, the rear end of the vehicle would actually kick out and slide a little. ABS and traction control should have accounted for this but didn't a few times for some reason. Could have been something software related that wasn't working correctly, but it caused a few "Oh sh*%!!" moments. In these situations an option to completely turn off the regen, without putting it in N, would have made for a safer driving situation. Curious how the Bolt acts in these situations driving in D or L mode.

 

[Anonymous]

There is no D mode, or its equivalent, on the i3?

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Perhaps there is "Too much regen in D mode" - but how about ZERO regen in N mode?

For fun, I played around with flipping into neutral and coasting today. Haven't done that since I bought the car. I humbly retract what I said earlier about coasting just as far with 1-pedal "neutral" if done correctly. It isn't the same (at least with a Mercedes EV). Damn if my car doesn't coast a long way in (actual) neutral. Much farther than my VW in neutral, or really any other car that I've hypermiled.

However, switching into neutral had an unexpected side affect. No regen on the brake pedal. None. When I switched into neutral, my brakes turned into good ol' fashioned friction brakes. Clearly, N disengages more than just the motor in my B250e, but also the entire system that recovers kinetic energy. I guess that's why my car glides so efficiently in N.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my experience. What I gain in coasting distance, I give back in lack of regen on the brake pedal. Just curious, Is this a setup that's related only to Tesla/Mercedes/RAV4EV drivetrains, or does it also happen with the Bolt, Leaf, Focus EV, etc?

The tires on some e-Golfs have only fair-to-middlin' rolling resistance. Our Leaf S with Ecopia tires coasts better in neutral than any other car I have driven. I swear it accelerates on flat ground (and maybe it does, if there is a slight tailwind?), and I am constantly catching up to cars - even on uphill grades.

And yes, to get regen on the brake, you have to shift back into D. Pain in the tuckus.