NOT HAPPY with brake lamps in L mode.

[LeftieBiker]

If automatics had a third pedal that you only had to use for emergency braking because the regular brake pedal didn't provide enough stopping power then I think those automatics would be involved in significantly more accidents.

Heh. Actually, the "parking brake" was often called the "emergency brake" for decades, and was often in the form of a...third pedal. It was up and to the left from the big brake pedal. I have one in my Leaf.

 

[EldRick]

Even though it was called the emergency brake by the ignorant, it was specifically designed for use only as a parking brake, and wouldn't stop a moving car soon enough to matter.

 

[phil0909]

It's beyond me why anyone would think EVs are any different.

Then you really need to get out more. This is extremely close-minded.

EVs are actually different, in many ways. Is it really inconceivable that they could differ in one more way?"

Keeping with the topic and not falling into your condescending straw man mode, safe car operation has ALWAYS required keeping foot on brake pedal while stopped. -IN THIS RESPECT- (yelling so you can actually hear what I'm saying), ICE and EV cars are NO different.

And sorry, I don't see the need for an automaker to hold our hands every step of the way. At some point, it's up to the driver to operate the car safely.

No, remaining safely stopped for a red light does not always requires foot on brake. Don't take my word for it, ask Mercedes, Volvo, and the others.

I did not present you with any straw man, so I haven't the vaguest idea what you're talking about there, nor on hand holding. However, you are the one who introduced snotty condescension into this thread. You were not content to simply disagree, you chose to belittle the OP by saying his views were "beyond" you. I thought you might benefit from being on the receiving end of your own type of insulting condescension. Apparently I was right.

 

[phil0909]

There's a big difference between driving a car that doesn't even have a pedal vs. one that has a pedal that you need to use in an emergency which, by driving in a particular manner, you train yourself not to use.

Well, for heaven's sake, do not train yourself not to use the brake pedal. That would be nuts!

I don't recall whether you've driven electric cars much, but the term 'one-pedal driving' is certainly not meant to be taken literally. I use the brakes every day, and I'm sure all but the most extreme hypermilers do too. There's no danger of forgetting to use the brake.

No doubt there is some potential for driver error caused by differences in controls among vehicles. But that horse left the barn a long time ago.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Even though it was called the emergency brake by the ignorant, it was specifically designed for use only as a parking brake, and wouldn't stop a moving car soon enough to matter.

Yes, it would definitely stop a moving car "soon enough to matter." Sheesh. Slower, harder to apply, but far from useless. Remember, until the late Sixties, braking systems had one master cylinder for all of the brakes, and that one failed regularly. How strong was that emergency brake? Ever see a car do a "bootlegger turn" by spinning 180 degrees to face in the opposite direction? That was accomplished by applying that thing the "ignorant" called the "emergency brake."

 

[michael]

Think about this - do you really want to roll out into the middle of an intersection if someone hits you from behind while you are waiting at an intersection?

This is a big point. Keep the brake applied so that you don't roll freely if hit from behind.

Similarly, I was always taught to keep the wheels straight while waiting to turn left so that if hit from behind I'm not pushed into oncoming traffic.

 

[SeanNelson]

There's a big difference between driving a car that doesn't even have a pedal vs. one that has a pedal that you need to use in an emergency which, by driving in a particular manner, you train yourself not to use.

Well, for heaven's sake, do not train yourself not to use the brake pedal. That would be nuts!

Exactly! And using the brake pedal when stopped is a great way to maintain that brake pedal habit.

 

[EldRick]

The "bootlegger turn" doesn't need much braking, because the mechanical parking brake only works on the rear wheels, and they don't have much weight on them when braking transfers weight to the front. The handbrake is also commonly used in autocross to break adhesion on the rear tires, because it gives separately controllable F/R braking bias, along with the four-wheel hydraulic brakes, which are already working on the rear wheels at that time.
Try using your "emergency" brake to stop some time - when you don't have anything in front of you.

 

[cab]

I don't own a Bolt, but saw the same issue on my Volt (no light with regen there) and now with my Tesla - I'm always looking in my rear view mirror on that and consciously making sure the brake pedal is pressed. It can be unnerving especially if the brake light goes off just as you come to a stop because the regen is so light then.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The "bootlegger turn" doesn't need much braking, because the mechanical parking brake only works on the rear wheels, and they don't have much weight on them when braking transfers weight to the front. The handbrake is also commonly used in autocross to break adhesion on the rear tires, because it gives separately controllable F/R braking bias, along with the four-wheel hydraulic brakes, which are already working on the rear wheels at that time.
Try using your "emergency" brake to stop some time - when you don't have anything in front of you.

I have done just that. It stopped the car fairly well. Try stopping a car without using the hydraulic brakes at all. The term "emergency brake" will finally become understandable for you.

 

[bbock]

It seems to me that car makers like GM could handle the issue in software. I presume the car can tell when it’s moving without the motor spinning and therefore they could automatically brake when this happens. I’d think that would take care of situations where someone backends you. They could keep you from rolling free. As I understand they already do apply brakes if you are on an incline or decline to keep you from rolling.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It seems to me that car makers like GM could handle the issue in software. I presume the car can tell when it’s moving without the motor spinning and therefore they could automatically brake when this happens. I’d think that would take care of situations where someone backends you. They could keep you from rolling free. As I understand they already do apply brakes if you are on an incline or decline to keep you from rolling.

The motor is always "spinning" when the car is moving.

 

[sparkyps]

The Spark EV initially didn't light the brake light when regen braking. Going down steep hills I actually preferred that as I could hold my speed with just regen braking and lighting up the brake lights was, IMO, not sending the right message to cars behind me. They probably thought I was an idiot riding my brakes and risking overheating them.

But I never had anyone rear end me. The two times in my life I was rear ended, in ICE vehicles, my brake lights were on and inattentive driving, not lack of visual clues, was the cause.

Maybe once all cars have collision avoidance built in it won't matter. In the meantime I prefer a car that only lights up the brakes when my foot is pressing the brake pedal or it is decelerating above a threshold. Too much brake light activity is as bad as too little. I am sure we've all been behind cars with a driver who drives with two feet and the left foot is riding the brake pedal.

 

[dandrewk]

To be precise, the brake lights don't activate with regen braking. They react to slowing down, just like an ICE would when applying brakes. I read somewhere they activate with .1g slowdown, which isn't much at all. However, at a full stop they don't go on, so be sure to press the brake pedal at stop lights.

 

[devbolt]

I used to drive a stick shift car. In fact I was taught on a manual. It wasn't too uncommon for us to come to a stop, put the car in neutral, and sit at the spotlight with our foot off of the brake. Not much different than sitting in L at a stoplight...

 

[SeanNelson]

I used to drive a stick shift car. In fact I was taught on a manual. It wasn't too uncommon for us to come to a stop, put the car in neutral, and sit at the spotlight with our foot off of the brake. Not much different than sitting in L at a stoplight...

Wow, that is NOT how I was taught to drive a manual. Foot on the brake when stopped, and if you're turning left have the wheels pointing straight ahead so that if someone hits you from behind you don't get launched into oncoming traffic.

 

[devbolt]

I used to drive a stick shift car. In fact I was taught on a manual. It wasn't too uncommon for us to come to a stop, put the car in neutral, and sit at the spotlight with our foot off of the brake. Not much different than sitting in L at a stoplight...

Wow, that is NOT how I was taught to drive a manual. Foot on the brake when stopped, and if you're turning left have the wheels pointing straight ahead so that if someone hits you from behind you don't get launched into oncoming traffic.

Yeah, I was taught the same thing about left turns, too. The no foot on the brake when at a stop was a laziness factor more than a lack of proper training. It's been 21 years since I've had to drive a manual on a regular basis.

 

[epete]

I am now the owner of a Bolt EV. Why? Because I was at a stop light with my breaks applied in my Honda FIT EV and someone not paying attention slammed into me. Having my breaks on dampened the blow from my FIT EV to the car in front of me.

I would advise always using breaks when stopped. Even with Break lights you can get hit; but I dont even want to think about what would have happened if I didnt have my breaks on.

 

[epete]

One other thought. Given I had my breaks applied when I was hit, it was very easy to see that it was the fault of the guy behind me. I really didn't have to tell the police anything. They could tell just by looking. If my breaks were not on, there would have been serious damage to the front of my car as well and it could look like I was the one who didn't stop and maybe the guy behind me hit me as he was paying attention to my car and not the car in front of me.

So, while it may be nice if Chevy added a break light when stopped in L without the breaks on, it is really better to apply breaks when stopped.

 

[SeanNelson]

I am now the owner of a Bolt EV. Why? Because I was at a stop light with my breaks applied in my Honda FIT EV and someone not paying attention slammed into me. Having my breaks on dampened the blow from my FIT EV to the car in front of me.

I would advise always using breaks when stopped. Even with Break lights you can get hit; but I dont even want to think about what would have happened if I didnt have my breaks on.

I normally wouldn't bother, but between this post and your next one you misspelled "brakes" seven times...