BMW man likes Bolt EV

[Fargoneandout]

I had a chance to drive the i3 today. I have a friend who has one on a lease. I think it is a 2015 but I cannot be certain other than to say that he has it on a lease and his lease is up in April. It is a Rex version. He saw my Bolt EV at work and called me wondering if it was mine so we took turns driving each other's EV's. I had no desire to do anything other in the OP than to provide my views of two cars I own, reasoning that this might be of interest to those wishing to learn of the views of others. I drove the i3 in the same spirit.

Pluses of the i3 over the Bolt EV. I like the weighting of the steering in the i3 better. It feels heavier to me and has slightly less dead space before turn-in. Throttle tip-in feels a little quicker too in normal mode, but less so with the Bolt in Sport. Interior is made of nicer materials, though the carbon fiber dash - the bit between the windshield and the center screen is ghastly. Too much fiber. Like burlap but black. Otherwise it is tidy and upscale.

Pluses of the Bolt EV over the i3. Everything else. Ride is superior by a wide margin. The i3 suspension setup felt very compromised, particularly the rear setup which is plagued by dreaded secondary rebound (we drove the cars back to back on the same route). Handling is better too - the i3 felt leaden and not at all as quick to turn once provoked. The Bolt EV felt vastly more agile. The Bolt EV is far quieter under all circumstances, has more rear seat legroom, and has normal doors - not those silly suicide things with the latch at the top linking both doors that seems placed right where you'd bonk your head. We didn't do any drag racing so I can't tell which car is faster (professional testing gives the Bolt EV a slight edge there), but the Bolt's combination of ride, handling, and composure made it feel far more stable.

My i3-leasing buddy asked for the contact info for my sales guy and will very likely be buying or leasing a Bolt EV. He loved it. Just so we can be sure I'm honest, he and I are swapping cars for a night so his wife and he can give the Bolt EV a realworld test. I have taken a photo of my watch on the dash of the Bolt EV and will do so on both the 328i Msport, which as I have said, I own, and the i3 when I borrow it.

Not trying to trash anyone's choices if you are an i3 aficionado, just offering my impressions as I promised to do.

 

[sgt1372]

I had a chance to drive the i3 today. [snip] Not trying to trash anyone's choices if you are an i3 aficionado, just offering my impressions as I promised to do.

Thanks for the driving comparison between the Bolt and i3. Like @GetOffYourGas, I enjoy reading such things.

No need to be apologetic about stating your honest opinion. FWIW, I never liked the looks, cost nor the limited driving range of the i3. It was never an EV that I even considered buying or leasing.

That choice was limited to the M3 and Bolt and the Bolt won the "race" simply because the M3 still doesn't exist. Just happy the Bolt is as good a car (not just an EV) as it is.

BTW, I just cancelled my M3 reservation today. Hope it doesn't take forever to get my $1k back but I won't hold my breath waiting to get it back.

LOL!!

 

[Fargoneandout]

When I first read your post I thought, "The Bolt is one thing, but a BMW M3 is an entirely different beast." Took me a minute to cotton on to the fact that you mean "Model3", not BMW M3.

It'll be interesting to see what i3 lease rates are like now that the Bolt is out. I also have no idea what BMW thinks they'll fetch for my friend's i3 off lease. I'll try to pin him down tomorrow to figure out what his residual is like as that'll be a guide. It'd be hard to imagine BMW not taking it in the shorts on off-lease i3's, though I also buy so cannot pretend to understand the intricacies of the leasing business.

 

[sgt1372]

When I first read your post I thought, "The Bolt is one thing, but a BMW M3 is an entirely different beast." Took me a minute to cotton on to the fact that you mean "Model3", not BMW M3.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, a "race" between a BMW M3 and a Bolt would hardly be a contest. :lol:

Tesla people refer to the Model 3 as an M3 and that's what I picked up on the Tesla forum. Only a BMW enthusiast would probably be confused by the reference. Should have thought about that.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Why people would put down a deposit on something that doesn't really exist yet I'll never understand.

 

[SparkE]

It's pretty obvious to me.

 

[SeanNelson]

Why people would put down a deposit on something that doesn't really exist yet I'll never understand.

Boy, you'd be lost in the condo market here in Vancouver BC. Virtually every unit is presold before the building goes up.

 

[sgt1372]

Why people would put down a deposit on something that doesn't really exist yet I'll never understand.

Almost 400k people around the world did so for the Tesla Model 3. I was one of them.

I think there was some panic and hysteria involved; the fear of not being able to get one when it comes out. The fact that the deposit is refundable made it easy for people w/$1k to spare to place the deposit "just in case."

Frankly, I don't think all of the reservation holders will actually buy/lease one. Tesla would be lucky to get 1/2 of the reservation holders to do so. But would still around 150k orders for the M3, which is huge number of cars to produce for a company who has only built about 186k cars (including the Roadster, Model S and Model X) over the past 9 years. That's just around 20k cars a year.

Many reservation holders have already dropped out after realizing that they really don't want/need a M3. Others made multiple deposits and dropped the extra ones. And, as time passes, many like me will simply buy/lease other EVs.

However, there still are many die-hard Teslarati who will hold onto their M3 reservation to the bitter end. The only car they want is a Tesla -- Bolt, BMW, Nissan, Hyundai ,etc. be damned. Question is how many of them are there really. Time will tell.

 

[DucRider]

Almost 400k people around the world did so for the Tesla Model 3. I was one of them.

I think there was some panic and hysteria involved; the fear of not being able to get one when it comes out. The fact that the deposit is refundable made it easy for people w/$1k to spare to place the deposit "just in case."

Frankly, I don't think all of the reservation holders will actually buy/lease one. Tesla would be lucky to get 1/2 of the reservation holders to do so. But would still around 150k orders for the M3, which is huge number of cars to produce for a company who has only built about 186k cars (including the Roadster, Model S and Model X) over the past 9 years. That's just around 20k cars a year.

Many reservation holders have already dropped out after realizing that they really don't want/need a M3. Others made multiple deposits and dropped the extra ones. And, as time passes, many like me will simply buy/lease other EVs.

However, there still are many die-hard Teslarati who will hold onto their M3 reservation to the bitter end. The only car they want is a Tesla -- Bolt, BMW, Nissan, Hyundai ,etc. be damned. Question is how many of them are there really. Time will tell.

Nice summation.
Plus there are a fair number of reservation holders I have spoken with that are hoping to be able to "flip" their M3 reservation for a profit. The reservations are stated as being non-transferable, but that fact has either escaped notice or they plan on purchasing and then selling the M3 (we will likely see some early examples on ebay for silly prices).

 

[Schnort]

I'm somewhere between the "just in case" and "nothing but a Model3".

I know I need something in a few years, and a cheaper, smaller, model S would be great and meet a lot of the check boxes. (The supercharger network is a big plus for road trips unless DCFC really takes off).

But if something else/better comes along (or the car ends up $60k well appointed), I don't have an issue with seeing what else is out there.

It helps that the $1000 is earning about the same interest at Tesla as it would in my savings account...

 

[phil0909]

Tesla would be lucky to get 1/2 of the reservation holders to do so.

Very lucky. Fewer than 30% of Model X reservations were ultimately converted into sales, and those X guys had to pay $5,000 (or more) for the reservation! I'd guess something like 15% of the ~373,000 early Model 3 reservations will end up in sales, or about 56,000 cars. Of course, Telsa won't know the number for a few years, and the rest of us will never know - Tesla is pretty stingy about releasing such data, so we must rely on estimates pieced together from limited information.

 

[EldRick]

Note that the 3 is only one foot shorter than the S. Not really a lot smaller car...

 

[Schnort]

It's also about a foot narrower (or so say the estimates).

 

[phil0909]

It's also about a foot narrower (or so say the estimates).

No, not a foot. Seven or eight inches narrower than S, according to the estimates I've seen. And a foot less in length.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Why people would put down a deposit on something that doesn't really exist yet I'll never understand.

Almost 400k people around the world did so for the Tesla Model 3. I was one of them.

I think there was some panic and hysteria involved; the fear of not being able to get one when it comes out. The fact that the deposit is refundable made it easy for people w/$1k to spare to place the deposit "just in case."

Frankly, I don't think all of the reservation holders will actually buy/lease one. Tesla would be lucky to get 1/2 of the reservation holders to do so. But would still around 150k orders for the M3, which is huge number of cars to produce for a company who has only built about 186k cars (including the Roadster, Model S and Model X) over the past 9 years. That's just around 20k cars a year.

Many reservation holders have already dropped out after realizing that they really don't want/need a M3. Others made multiple deposits and dropped the extra ones. And, as time passes, many like me will simply buy/lease other EVs.

However, there still are many die-hard Teslarati who will hold onto their M3 reservation to the bitter end. The only car they want is a Tesla -- Bolt, BMW, Nissan, Hyundai ,etc. be damned. Question is how many of them are there really. Time will tell.

Of course there was fear and hysteria. The same mentality and hysteria with silly Iphones and cellphones where people camp out for one was in full force with the Model 3.

Fear and the feeling of "losing out" even when one already has pretty much the same product in hand is a powerful force.

 

[cab]

One thing to note about EVS (and this is true of almost all of them), it is easy to "drive them quicker" than their gas counterparts in every day situations. Indeed, after I sold my '02 M5 and leased the gen 1 Volt I told my friends "From one corner to the next, day in and day out, I tend to drive the Volt quicker than I drove the M5". Now did the Volt handle better? Nope, not even close. On all out blasts was the Volt like the M5? Puhlease, hardly. I found though that I just enjoyed zipping along though in a single gear darting in and out with zero forethought, no need to downshift, etc. I opined at one point "So which car is 'sportier'? The "slow" one that I drive faster or the "fast" one that I drive slower?" To be fair, the gen 1 Volt was just a bit too mushy, but gen 2 seems good enough even w/o BMW levels of handling.

Even though I'm driving a P85+ now, I actually think a mashup of the i3 and Bolt would be a great combo. The lightweight construction of the i3 combined with the practicality (normal doors, better ride quality, range, etc.) and performance of the Bolt would hit a sweet spot in terms of a quick hot hatch and I'd probably love it.

I do also wonder if the next gen BMW 3 series PHEV will have any kind of decent range - not getting my hopes up there though as the new 5 series was just released and the PHEV version of that still has less than a 10kw battery.

I'm sorry. What was the question again?

 

[Fargoneandout]

First time trying to upload a photo so if, as in the first Matrix film, there "is no spoon," so to speak it isn't for lack of trying.

More comparison impressions of i3 to Bolt. A second friend has an i3. It too is a Rex version. I didn't get to drive this one but my friend, the owner, and I drove mine over lunch. He too likes the Bolt and though he also likes his i3 he too will likely go Bolt. What bugged him most about the i3 is first, that the hates the tires and suspension setup and second that the tires are prone to wear and very expensive to replace. He said he had to change is rear tires at 13k miles. BMW is going to have to up their ante considerably if they wish to compete with the Bolt. Both i3 owners openly scoffed at the idea that barfing up an extra 10k for a badge on an inferior (to them and to me) product.

 

[Fargoneandout]

Sigh. I'll figure the photo upload thing yet dang it!

 

[Fargoneandout]

That is the i3 Rex, Bolt EV, and Volt all next to one another. I have driven the i3, own the Bolt, and ridden in the Volt which, other than the really cramped quarters in the back, was actually really nice. Great ride and quiet.

 

[Fargoneandout]

Last post (so sorry for multiples, but I'm an analog sailor in a digital fleet, so to speak).

As promised some data supporting the idea that I am indeed a 'BMW Man - my watch on the dash of my Bolt EV and my 2014 BMW 328i Msport. The BMW sits mostly in the garage these days as I am totally commuting in the Bolt and only taking the BMW out from time to time for a spin.