Not ready for prime time!

[Anonymous]

The OP simply wanted to drive to Vegas, at the speed limit (like most everyone else does) in order arrive in a reasonable amount of time. I added sarcasm to help you consider using common sense. Neither were successful.

You misquote how the OP drove to Las Vegas, but since actions speak louder than words:

Today I reached Victorville at about 2:30pm. My first EVGo session achieved a charge of 178 miles/84% but since I had only eaten half of my burger at Red Robin in the Mall, I remotely ordered another 30 minutes to achieve 203 miles/96%.

As I left I turned on the lights, turned up the air conditioning to remain fully comfortable (temperatures would reach 109F in the Valley), and of course the radio was on for the full drive. I was in "L" for the full drive.

I decided to drive "conservatively" to see the results, so I drove primarily in the right lane: at the speed limit when faced with no traffic and at the "flow of traffic" with the cruise control when I would catch up to traffic.

The initial gap between the miles remaining on the Nav and the Mileage Gauge was 10 in my favor, but it started to increase in my favor: 20, 30, 40 at one point hitting 50+!

I decided to use the Terrible Herbst in Northwestern Las Vegas as my destination DCFC assuming that the one in Southern Las Vegas would have the greatest line of waiting electric cars. Also this one was one mile from the Red Rock Resort where I prefer to stay in Las Vegas.

I arrived with 55 MPH on the Gauge! There was a Nissan Leaf using the DCFC with 10 minutes remaining. We chatted up electric cars, he took my photo holding up today's Las Vegas newspaper and then he left! I used the DCFC for only 30 minutes as I knew there was an L2 at Red Rock.

The full day's stats, including some minor errands near my home before I left was 285 miles utilizing 67.0 KWh!

Since it only requires an extra 7 KWh to reach Las Vegas from Los Angeles, this trip is eminently doable at the speed limit for the complete trip next time; especially to a more southern Terrible Herbst!

If you are seeking to join the debate team at the University of Alberta, don't embarrass yourself!

 

[Anonymous]

Charging up at the Terrible Herbst on Tropicana for the drive back to LA.

This time in mid-lanes at speed limit. When flow of traffic in lane wants to go faster, I will do the "California Courtesy" and move over a lane to my right and let the faster traffic easily pass!

 

[oilerlord]

Michael, you're making this about you.

I'm not at all suggesting that the trip can't be done. It can. Drive slow enough and/or wait long enough at a charger (assuming one is available), and you're there.

Step back for a moment, and compare two trips from LA - Vegas. The trip you just posted, and one in a Volt (or any other gasoline powered car). Here's yours:

Today I reached Victorville at about 2:30pm. My first EVGo session achieved a charge of 178 miles/84% but since I had only eaten half of my burger at Red Robin in the Mall, I remotely ordered another 30 minutes to achieve 203 miles/96%.

As I left I turned on the lights, turned up the air conditioning to remain fully comfortable (temperatures would reach 109F in the Valley), and of course the radio was on for the full drive. I was in "L" for the full drive.

I decided to drive "conservatively" to see the results, so I drove primarily in the right lane: at the speed limit when faced with no traffic and at the "flow of traffic" with the cruise control when I would catch up to traffic.

The initial gap between the miles remaining on the Nav and the Mileage Gauge was 10 in my favor, but it started to increase in my favor: 20, 30, 40 at one point hitting 50+!

I decided to use the Terrible Herbst in Northwestern Las Vegas as my destination DCFC assuming that the one in Southern Las Vegas would have the greatest line of waiting electric cars. Also this one was one mile from the Red Rock Resort where I prefer to stay in Las Vegas.

I arrived with 55 MPH on the Gauge! There was a Nissan Leaf using the DCFC with 10 minutes remaining. We chatted up electric cars, he took my photo holding up today's Las Vegas newspaper and then he left! I used the DCFC for only 30 minutes as I knew there was an L2 at Red Rock.

The full day's stats, including some minor errands near my home before I left was 285 miles utilizing 67.0 KWh!

Since it only requires an extra 7 KWh to reach Las Vegas from Los Angeles, this trip is eminently doable at the speed limit for the complete trip next time; especially to a more southern Terrible Herbst!

Everyone else:

Put gas in car. Drive to Vegas.

 

[Anonymous]

You're wrong TWICE!

This is about how EASY it is to drive from LA to Vegas in the Chevy Bolt EV!

My trip here was experimental.

My trip home will confirm it!!

Note: my car would have been fully charged had I stayed at the Red Rock, which was sold out, so I stayed at a friends house. But I still had to go out and eat breakfast anyway!

 

[Anonymous]

Now enjoying my lunch at the Food Court at the Victor Mall in Victorville after driving with the same characteristics as yesterday but this time from Las Vegas with cruise control set to 70 MPH.

The only times I drove slower were when the "flow of traffic" on all lanes was below 70 or if the flow in the fast lane was in excess of 70, so I drove one lane to the right of the fast lane.

I made it to the Victorville DCFC with 3% battery remaining. In the future, I will moderate the uphill ascents so as to not cut it so close.

But it proves the point that the Bolt EV is easily capable of making the LA to Las Vegas and back journey without sacrificing comfort or too much speed!

The OP wanted an experience, high speed and distance, that is beyond the technological abilities of the Bolt EV at this time! And probably beyond the capabilities of the Tesla unless more than one charging stop is anticipated.

 

[Anonymous]

...Step back for a moment, and compare two trips from LA - Vegas. The trip you just posted, and one in a Volt (or any other gasoline powered car).

Here's yours:
...

Everyone else:

Put gas in car. Drive to Vegas.

In effect, you are advocating that a Bolt EV be NEVER driven beyond its single charge range capacity, never use a DCFC to extend its range and ALWAYS use a gas vehicle in these situations!!

A propoposition that most EV owners would find most untenable!!

I note that you do not own or lease a Bolt EV!

What exactly is your agenda here?

 

[gbobman]

 

[oilerlord]

In effect, you are advocating that a Bolt EV be NEVER driven beyond its single charge range capacity, never use a DCFC to extend its range and ALWAYS use a gas vehicle in these situations!!

Not at all.

I'm only recognizing (as others have) what the Bolt does well, and where it's challenged - not necessarily that the car is lacking, but that the charging existing infrastructure hold the car back. If there were a dozen DCFC charging stations, between LA - Vegas, all hypothetically able to charge the Bolt at 150kW or more - we wouldn't be having this debate. The reality is, we aren't there yet. Many DC "fast" charging stations aren't fast. Having to wait around for an hour, and usually pay more that the equivalent cost of gasoline proves this.

As a city car, the Bolt is amazing. As an EPA 238 mile car, it's all the city commuter range anyone needs - and more. As a road trip car, it has it's challenges for reasons that have been discussed hundreds of times over. The OP posted his experience. Regardless of being a newbie or not, a 270 mile road trip takes longer in a Bolt than it does in a gasoline car.

Again, I never said that longer road trips weren't possible...only that they make more sense in a Volt, or other gasoline powered car because they remove any range issue, along with the time it takes to charge the car from the equation.

 

[SeanNelson]

Step back for a moment, and compare two trips from LA - Vegas. The trip you just posted, and one in a Volt (or any other gasoline powered car). Here's yours:

Today I reached Victorville at about 2:30pm....

Everyone else:
Put gas in car. Drive to Vegas.

There are really two separate issues here. One is whatever extra time and effort it takes to make whatever charging stops are necessary. The other is the amount of planning and research you need to do to ensure the trip goes smoothly. Some people are fine with the planning part, and some people aren't. You can argue all day long about whether it's a disincentive or not, but in the end it comes down to each person's individual proclivities.

 

[GernBlanston]

I note that you do not own or lease a Bolt EV!
What exactly is your agenda here?

Hmmmm... Great question.

 

[GernBlanston]

There are really two separate issues here. One is whatever extra time and effort it takes to make whatever charging stops are necessary. The other is the amount of planning and research you need to do to ensure the trip goes smoothly. Some people are fine with the planning part, and some people aren't. You can argue all day long about whether it's a disincentive or not, but in the end it comes down to each person's individual proclivities.

Excellent and outstanding post, sir. Boffo!
(and bonus points for using the word 'proclivities'!)

 

[Anonymous]

Again, I never said that longer road trips weren't possible...only that they make more sense in a Volt, or other gasoline powered car because they remove any range issue, along with the time it takes to charge the car from the equation.

Again, I ask: Not owning a Bolt EV or other long range EV, what is your agenda here?

 

[WetEV]

I also do not own a Bolt. The seats are not ready for prime time, or at least not ready for me.

Consider competitive advantages of ICE vs EV in two cases:

1) Daily commuting. Advantage EV: no fueling stops needed, less maintenance needed, more responsive, less air pollution, less climate change. Advantage ICE: Might be cheaper.
2) Long distance driving. Advantage EV: less maintenance, more responsive, less air pollution (but matters less when in remote areas), less climate change. Advantage ICE: much faster fueling, far better fueling network, longer distance possible between fueling stops, might be cheaper.

If your commute is longer than 150 miles or so, then the EV might not be a good fit.

If you drive a lot of 200 mile plus trips, then the EV might not be a good fit.

Most people do a lot more local driving than long distance driving, and should examine the trade offs based on their personal standards and circumstances. A large fraction would find EVs a better overall choice, especially as EVs are getting cheaper to own, and are likely to continue to become lower cost and longer range over time.

Neighbors I had when I lived back east had never taken a car trip longer than about 150 miles. They could have owned a Bolt or similar range EV and never ever changed anyplace but home. At the other extreme are relatives that live in a very rural area, where the closest real shopping is 90 miles away, elementary school is 40 miles away, high school is 60 miles away, and trips of hundreds of miles are fairly routine. I doubt if an EV would work well for them.

 

[oilerlord]

There are really two separate issues here. One is whatever extra time and effort it takes to make whatever charging stops are necessary. The other is the amount of planning and research you need to do to ensure the trip goes smoothly. Some people are fine with the planning part, and some people aren't.

Sean, these aren't issues at all, they are choices.

Do we choose to make this trip under 4 hours or do we choose to turn it into 5 1/2 hours or more?
On freeways and interstates, do we choose to drive 55 mph, or drive between 75-80 mph?

While Michael's getting his geek on by hypermiling his car; and happily wasting his time at a public charger, I'm already in Vegas, by the pool with a cold drink in my hand. Again, it's all about choices.

 

[TedMichon]

As the OP in this thread, I am amazed to see so many posts indicating that I "insisted on driving at 75 MPH". Fact is, I never mentioned speeds and that we used cruise control to stay under 60!

 

[oilerlord]

It's also been suggested that you don't know how to make the drive from LA to Vegas with your Bolt:

Since many people have reported making that trip easily, there is a major flaw in the OP's methodology of how he expects to drive a Bolt EV from LA to Vegas!

If, like sgt1372, he insists on driving his Bolt EV like his BMW at 75+ MPH on I-15, he cannot expect to easily make that trip!

As you set your cruise at 60 mph, clearly you do know how to drive for efficiency. I'm not sure where the "flaw" in your methodology was.

 

[SeanNelson]

Do we choose to make this trip under 4 hours or do we choose to turn it into 5 1/2 hours or more? On freeways and interstates, do we choose to drive 55 mph, or drive between 75-80 mph?

I certainly agree that most drivers want to hop in and get to their destination as fast as possible, and for those people driving beyond the range of the Bolt is going to be problematic. But there are exceptions to those kinds of drivers and those kinds of trips. It's a lot less of a challenge for people who are going to be stopping for lunch and a bio break anyway and who aren't driving further in a day than an overnight + mid-day charge can take them.

So, like everything else, there's a spectrum of requirements. The Bolt fills one end of the spectrum (running around town) admirably, can do shorter road trips, can do longer road trips for certain drivers, but probably not for most. That's basically about where the state of the art is right now.

 

[oilerlord]

So, like everything else, there's a spectrum of requirements. The Bolt fills one end of the spectrum (running around town) admirably, can do shorter road trips, can do longer road trips for certain drivers, but probably not for most. That's basically about where the state of the art is right now.

Tesla owns the state of the art. As good as the Bolt is, it's not even close to being the complete EV package. The Model 3 is the real deal: 310 miles. 170 miles of range on a 30 minute charge. $44,000.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-specs-range-features-photos-2017-7/#first-the-basics-tesla-will-offer-six-color-options-for-the-model-3-black-midnight-silver-metallic-deep-blue-metallic-silver-metallic-pearl-white-multi-coat-red-multi-coat-1

500,000 orders and counting. The public has spoken. Where the Bolt falls short, the Model 3 is ready for prime time. We may be on the verge of witnessing a paradigm shift.

 

[Anonymous]

As the OP in this thread, I am amazed to see so many posts indicating that I "insisted on driving at 75 MPH". Fact is, I never mentioned speeds and that we used cruise control to stay under 60!

Ted: your initial and follow up posts were missing the bare minimum data needed to properly analyze why you were unable to properly make it from Victorville to Las Vegas, let only "barely" to Primm!

As a "newbie" you picked one of the most challenging long distance rides to attempt before you became familiar with being able to properly plan for any long distance ride, let alone this one!

Given a bare minimum of data, I made the suggestion that you must like to drive fast in his BMW like sgt1372; I did not actually suggest you were driving 75+ MPH:

If, like sgt1372, he insists on driving his Bolt EV like his BMW at 75+ MPH on I-15, he cannot expect to easily make that trip!

You had only told us that you charged up to 87% without telling us how many miles the gauge claimed this would give you and yet, you claimed this was not enough miles (185) to get you to Las Vegas:

Charging stopped at 87%, with not enough miles to get us to Vegas.

You then chose to NOT pay the $5.95 for another 30 minutes of EVGo charging, which should have given you enough miles, instead venturing out into the hot desert and the "free" charging stations at Primm. I believe this is your misunderstanding of how EVGo's charging system works; you thought it would cost you $50!

If you look at my experience two days ago: I believe that you should have paid the $5.95 and brought your battery to about 97%:

My first EVGo session achieved a charge of 178 miles/84% ..., I ... ordered another 30 minutes to achieve 203 miles/96%.

This must be the flaw in your attempt to drive to Las Vegas at 60 MPH and pooping out at Primm with unsatisfactory charging stations available to you! Although quite honestly I am puzzled that at 60 MPH you arrived at Primm with only 13 miles available given my performance!

 

[Anonymous]

While Michael's getting his geek on by hypermiling his car; and happily wasting his time at a public charger,.... Again, it's all about choices.

Not all of us have a fleet of automobiles* to choose from like YOU, and it seems no coincidence that your name is OILerLORD!

But let me ask you a question:

After you drive one of your gas fueled vehicles for 200 miles from Las Vegas to Victorville, you have no need to:

a) stretch your legs;

b) relieve your bodily functions; and/or

c) have a meal?

The sum total of which takes as much time as it did for me to "waste my time at a public charger in Victorville after I drove at 70 MPH from Vegas (I guess you can't read!?)?" You really are talking through one of your bodily function portholes!!!

Tesla owns the state of the art. As good as the Bolt is, it's not even close to being the complete EV package. The Model 3 is the real deal: 310 miles. 170 miles of range on a 30 minute charge. $44,000.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-specs-range-features-photos-2017-7/#first-the-basics-tesla-will-offer-six-color-options-for-the-model-3-black-midnight-silver-metallic-deep-blue-metallic-silver-metallic-pearl-white-multi-coat-red-multi-coat-1

500,000 orders and counting. The public has spoken. Where the Bolt falls short, the Model 3 is ready for prime time. We may be on the verge of witnessing a paradigm shift.

Now we know where your Agenda is: a car that is not yet for sale to the mass public!!! Don't buy/lease a BOLT, wait for the FUTURE!!! hahahahaha

Well, I DON'T wait: I lease a technology car for 3 years and ENJOY IT NOW and if the future brings better technology, then I buy/lease THEN, too (just like I did the Chevy Volt 1.0 from 2013 to 2016)!

*Oilerlord's FLEET:
2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive (compliance car)
2012 VW Jetta Sportwagen (diesel) TDI
2008 BMW X3 3.0
2004 BMW 330Xi Sedan