Picked up "red" Bolt Premier in SJ, at MSRP $42.925k with DC fast charge, two-tone leather seats, heated seats, etc.. Leased for 36 mo / 30k miles ($2500 cap cost reduction, .00133 MF, .61 residual). Leased for $11.5k down and $250 / month. Dealer was resistant against fully paying off the lease upfront for $0/month; otherwise would have paid around $20k+ for $0/month (before $2.5k state rebate).
Purchase / Lease details
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Pigwich
Well-known member
ang said:
As was explained to me, if the car gets in an accident, insurance won't give you that money back, which would suck, and as I sit here with a Spark EV I paid ahead 6 months from now that I'm trying to get somebody to take, I see the appeal of keeping my money in my pocket. Also, since it's not an installment loan, I'm not sure you'd save money? Sure doesn't sound like it? But congrats on your new acquisition. Mine is still on a truck or train somewhere. Keyes Chevy is at least nice enough to call me every other day to let me know that they don't have any clue where it is.
I wonder what happens if I get to the point of where I need to make payments on a car I don't yet have? Or if I get the license plates for a car I haven't taken delivery of?
Also, be warned, as of November, the cutoff for household income is $300K for the state rebate.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
Pigwich said:
Meanwhile, I contacted a Chevy dealer with interest in a Bolt, and they keep trying to sell me a Volt.
A car lease is effectively an installment loan, with a balloon payment at the end of the lease term, in the amount of the residual, for which the leasing company agrees to take the car back in lieu of the balloon payment.Pigwich said:
So on any lease the "rent" or interest charged during the lease is roughly (interest rate * length of lease * average of total capitalized cost and residual amount). If you arrange a one payment lease ($0/month), then the total capitalized cost will equal the residual, and you will minimize the interest expenses in your lease. If you arrange a 0 down lease, then the total capitalized cost will be the purchase price plus all the capitalized fees, and you will end up paying more interest.
If there's a way to properly insure the car against loss (i.e. a policy that would pay out the residual amount to the financing company, and the rest of the value to you, using a straight line depreciation model from the total capitalized cost if you put $0 down to the residual over the length of the lease), then doing a one payment lease would save you interest charges. Depending on the interest rate on the lease (as implied by the money factor), that might or might not be a good investment for excess cash on hand.
Cheers, Wayne
Yes, would save on interest if fully pay off lease upfront. Good to know about implications of doing so if car is involved in an accident.
Dealer resistance probably stemmed from more money in their pocket if the lease involved interest payments, since I learned after the fact from the lease calculator below that should have gotten 0.0005 money factor for my credit rating (rather than 0.00133):
https://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/21/bolt-ev-lease-program-announced-309-month
The money factor I actually got was not noted in any paperwork I received, but was texted to me after I had noticed this information was not in the lease paperwork that my salesperson had originally advised to check for the information.
Dealer resistance probably stemmed from more money in their pocket if the lease involved interest payments, since I learned after the fact from the lease calculator below that should have gotten 0.0005 money factor for my credit rating (rather than 0.00133):
https://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/21/bolt-ev-lease-program-announced-309-month
The money factor I actually got was not noted in any paperwork I received, but was texted to me after I had noticed this information was not in the lease paperwork that my salesperson had originally advised to check for the information.
wwhitney said:
If there even is a type of policy that will do this, I suspect it would cost far more than the interest portion of the lease.
My strong advice: pay ZERO at lease inception, pay monthly over the life of the lease, then walk away.
And as you mentioned, interest works both ways...if you pay the lease upfront, you will not be earning investment returns on the money in the hands of the leasing company. If the money factor is, for example, .001, that's only 2.4 %. If you can do better than that, you're losing money by pre-paying the lease.
A
Anonymous
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Actually I signed a lease today on Red Premier in SJ too. I was told by the dealer 0.0005 MF ended on Jan 3rd and new rate for Tier 1 credit is 0.00072. He showed me the numbers in GM system, not sure how far it was true. They originally offered me 0.00133, but then eventually gave the 0.00072.
ang said:
JupiterMoon
Well-known member
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- Dec 11, 2016
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Pigwich said:
$370 seems high. My calculations given your information should bring you to $315 so not sure what hidden costs they've stuck in there. Interesting to see. Lease calculations are very very simple. So it shouldn't be hard to figure it out.
JupiterMoon said:
I'll try to scan the lease later, but for the time being, go to the LEASEHAKR calculator and plug in these numbers, which I took straight from my lease paperwork:
Make: Chevrolet
MSRP: 39690
Sales Price: 39690
Taxed Incentives: 2500
Untaxed Incentives: 0
Down Payment: 2709
Acquisition Fee: 595
Miles: 12000
Residual: 60%
Months: 36
Money Factor: .0005
Doc Fee: 109
License / Reg: 359
Sales Tax: 8.5%
Calculator comes up with Monthly payment: $342 (w/o tax), $371 (tax incl).
Perhaps I should have said "$4000 drive off cost" instead of "$4000 down." Only ~$2700 of that actually reduces the cap cost. The rest goes to tax on the $2700 down + $2500 incentive, legit fees, and first month's payment.
lafay said:
I mentally adjust lease offers to zero driveaway...4000/36 = 111 effective adder to the scheduled payment
So this is about 475 effective. This seems to be about the going rate at this time, I'm hoping it will come down over the next few months, but it's only a hope....
My "I'll take it" price for a premier would be about $425, don't know when or even if this will happen.
Below are my lease figures plus a scan of the actual lease.
Would like to verify that the $250.74/month resulting lease payment matches the terms below I was told by dealer I got.
MSRP 42925 vehicle + 525 wearcare
Taxed incentives 2500
Cash down payment 12,072.25 (11,500 down + 572.25 payment for wearcare including 9% tax)
Acquisition 595
Residual 61%
Months 36
Miles 10k
Money Factor 0.00133
Doc fee 109
Lic/Reg fee 370
Sales Tax 9%
For some reason Leasehackr is calculating a much lower monthly payment than the actual lease.
Does anyone know what entry for "Down Payment" to put on Leasehackr if not the customer's cash down?
Since the lease paperwork doesn't spell out money factor anywhere, maybe MF is the source of discrepancy between what I was told and what Leasehakr calculates for monthly payment?
Would like to verify that the $250.74/month resulting lease payment matches the terms below I was told by dealer I got.
MSRP 42925 vehicle + 525 wearcare
Taxed incentives 2500
Cash down payment 12,072.25 (11,500 down + 572.25 payment for wearcare including 9% tax)
Acquisition 595
Residual 61%
Months 36
Miles 10k
Money Factor 0.00133
Doc fee 109
Lic/Reg fee 370
Sales Tax 9%
For some reason Leasehackr is calculating a much lower monthly payment than the actual lease.
Does anyone know what entry for "Down Payment" to put on Leasehackr if not the customer's cash down?
Since the lease paperwork doesn't spell out money factor anywhere, maybe MF is the source of discrepancy between what I was told and what Leasehakr calculates for monthly payment?
Attachments
FWIW, there is a type of car insurance endorsement that would protect a lessee who makes a large upfront payment on the lease. Allied calls their version the "New Car Replacement/Gap Coverage" endorsement. Their terms are that in the event your new car is totaled in the first three years of ownership, the payout will be sufficient to buy the new car then available closest to the totaled car, capped at 125% of the totaled car's actual cash value. I'm waiting to hear from my insurance agent how much that endorsement would cost me if I lease a Bolt.michael said:
Also, my agent tells me this (possibly California specific): with a normal car insurance policy, if a leased car is totaled, and the insurance payout exceeds the buyout cost of the lease, then the balance of the payout is made to the lessee. In which case leasing a car with a large down payment is no riskier than buying the car; in either case if the car is totaled while the car is very young, you are out the sales tax, registration fees, and drive-off depreciation on the car.
Of course, leasing a car with $0 drive-off and gap insurance does protect one from the above exposure, which is part of what makes leasing potentially appealing to me. I just wish that GM passed on the entire federal tax credit to the lessee as a capital cost reduction; since they don't, it doesn't seem to make any sense to lease a Bolt with the intention to buy it out at lease end.
Cheers, Wayne
wwhitney said:
The Cap at 125% of the ACV will generally be a very low number in the case of an EV...I would not depend on this to buy you a replacement. Remember the ACV drops $7500 ($10,000 in California) the moment you sign the papers. And it depreciates from there.
Also, if one puts, for example, $4K down and the insurance payout is $100 over the lease buyout, you get $100, not $4k
I can think of no good reason to put anything down on a lease. All it does is create risk.
Interesting point, I hadn't considered that. But if the Federal Tax Credit and/or California Rebate are still available, then you don't need the payout to be the full purchase price, as you could get those credits again. And if either one has lapsed, presumably the resale market has adjusted to reflect that.michael said:
If my insurance agent is correct about how insurance payouts are handled, then the risk in a lease with a large downpayment is no different than the risk when buying.michael said:
But I agree that the risk with a $0 driveoff lease (with gap insurance) is less than either of those cases. The tradeoff is greater interest costs. So the best choice will depend on interest rate and a person's level of risk aversion. For a 0.00072 money factor lease (1.73% APR), the interest rate is very low, so the $0 driveoff lease is quite likely the best way to go.
Cheers, Wayne
Has anyone leased out of state ? Thinking Bolt won't come to WA by May when my Leaf lease ends after 2 extensions.
Sucks that 7500 tax credit is not accounted for clearly. Prefer lower residual and 7500 paid towards cap reduction. May be better to buy.
Sucks that 7500 tax credit is not accounted for clearly. Prefer lower residual and 7500 paid towards cap reduction. May be better to buy.
