Which options are worth having others not worth it.

[EldRick]

Here's some actual data from reality, using a (rare) 50kW DCFC. Sure looks like 3 hrs on the road and an hour-and-a-half charging to me. Call it a 2:1 ratio of roadtime:chargetime. If 80kW chargers existed, they could presumably raise the ratio to 3:1.

http://boltev.blogspot.com/2017/01/dc-fast-charge-data.html

Not my idea of a relaxing road trip, given the anxiety as to whether a planned charger will actually work when you get there.

 

[SeanNelson]

Here's some actual data from reality, using a (rare) 50kW DCFC. Sure looks like 3 hrs on the road and an hour-and-a-half charging to me.

It's a lot less than that if you consider that you get the first charge of the day "free" by having charged the car overnight. So even if it takes 1-1/2 hours to get 3 hour's worth of driving, you get the first 3 hour's worth free which means for six hour's worth of driving you're only waiting 1-1/2 hours.

And if you take an hour for lunch while the car is charging then there's an argument to be made that that time can be considered "free" as well.

This all depends on your driving style and whether or not you would, say, actually stop for lunch anyway. For some people it wouldn't work, for others it would.

 

[stevewa]

With the exception of one dealer in the Portland area nearly all the configurations I've seen online have included CCS, I think due to the advanced state of the charging network here, and a surprising amount of savvy at the dealerships as to what makes for an easier sale.

I drove through Portland in the fall and I was really impressed with "Electric Avenue", the block downtown that's chock full of fast DC chargers. When I get my Bolt EV later this year I'm sure I'm going to end up driving down there from Vancouver at least once or twice.

Interestingly that is actually "Electric Avenue 2.0" as the original site was remodeled by Portland State University. The local utilities have announced plans to create another, similar installation on another downtown block.

 

[SparkE]

Here's some actual data from reality, using a (rare) 50kW DCFC. Sure looks like 3 hrs on the road and an hour-and-a-half charging to me. Call it a 2:1 ratio of roadtime:chargetime. If 80kW chargers existed, they could presumably raise the ratio to 3:1.

http://boltev.blogspot.com/2017/01/dc-fast-charge-data.html

Not my idea of a relaxing road trip, given the anxiety as to whether a planned charger will actually work when you get there.

1) 50 kW chargers are, in general, not 'rare' (although they may be in *your* area). Most of the EVgo DCFC chargers are 50 kW, for example. I can think of over 10 *non-EVgo* 50 kW chargers within 45 miles of my house. (I can also think of at least ten 24 kW DCFCs in the same zone : every VW, BMW, and Audi dealership, for example.)

2) If you charge any EV (including a Tesla) up to about 90% SoC, then the battery charge rate will be a LOT slower at the end than it is at (say) 40% SoC. Solution? You charge until the SoC reaches that 'elbow' where charge rate drops, then you drive for another two hours and charge again. This is true for *any* EV, including my neighbor's Tesla - he tells me that he rarely charges past 65% when super-charging, as (1) it's not very good for battery longevity and (2) the charge rate slows the higher the SoC.

 

[JupiterMoon]

I doubt very much you'll even be able to get a Bolt without it already on the vehicle unless you special order. I think by default they are sending out vehicles with fast charging on them. I think this is the right thing to do anyway but the wrong thing to do is to charge people for it. At this stage of the game, it should be standard and part of the cost of the vehicle.

 

[floamis]

I've contacted a few dealers that have the base model without DC fast charging. At most, they only had like 1 or 2 on hand though, majority had it.

 

[mbepic]

I doubt very much you'll even be able to get a Bolt without it already on the vehicle unless you special order. I think by default they are sending out vehicles with fast charging on them. I think this is the right thing to do anyway but the wrong thing to do is to charge people for it. At this stage of the game, it should be standard and part of the cost of the vehicle.

I don't know who makes those decisions in GM but for some reason ALL Canadian Bolts EV will have the DC fast charge standard equipment.

 

[user 124]

I've contacted a few dealers that have the base model without DC fast charging. At most, they only had like 1 or 2 on hand though, majority had it.

Those cars will be worth about as much as a Ford Focus Electric in a few years - the slight range difference won't mean much when people realize how long it takes those cars to charge via L2.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Those cars will be worth about as much as a Ford Focus Electric in a few years - the slight range difference won't mean much when people realize how long it takes those cars to charge via L2.

When did Ford triple the car's range...?

 

[EldRick]

Back on the original topic, I ordered a Premiere without the Drivers Assist features, because they are camera-based, and thus work so poorly that they will simply look silly in a couple or years - like having an 8-track tape deck, IMHO.

 

[michael]

I've contacted a few dealers that have the base model without DC fast charging. At most, they only had like 1 or 2 on hand though, majority had it.

Those cars will be worth about as much as a Ford Focus Electric in a few years - the slight range difference won't mean much when people realize how long it takes those cars to charge via L2.

I don't agree. 60 kWh can be refilled overnight L2 even from empty, and very few people will go through 60 kWh in a day. Except for long distance travel, larger battery capacity makes fast charging less essential.

I typically use 25 kWh in a day, rarely exceeded 40, and I drove nearly 2000 miles a month for three years. I can easily imagine never needing to fast charge a Bolt.

 

[EldRick]

I can easily imagine never needing to fast charge a Bolt.

I agree, particularly with the very few very slow "fast" chargers that populate Oregon.
Maybe in a few years it will be different, but at the moment, "fast" charging isn't, in my neck of the woods, so DCFC is $750 down the drain, IMHO.

 

[Dreaderus]

Well id rather have the safely features now if it helps me even once avoid an accident, not even comparable to recording medium.

 

[sgt1372]

My LT came with the Comfort and Convenience Packages, DCFC and the False Trunk Cover. I asked for the Confort and Convenience Packages. All of the Bolts ordered by my dealer came w/the DCFC.

Didn't know about the False Trunk cover but glad I got it. It even's out the level of the trunk and the rear seats when they are dropped down and provides 2 levels in the trunk (one hidden) which makes storage much more convenient and useful.

I've discovered that the Comfort Package is essential if you want to save power when driving the Bolt in cold weather. The heated steering wheel and seats draw no noticeable charge BUT turning on the heating can draw 5-10kw. So, I've started just turning off the heat and just using the heated steering wheel and seat while driving in our currently cold/raining weather.

All of the safety notification features in the Convenience Package are also useful but not essential but I'd rather have them than not.

Didn't have a choice about the DCFC but was going to ask for it even if the dealer didn't already order one for the car. Again, rather have it than not.

The only other thing I'd like to get for my Bolt is a set of Weathertech mats but they don't have any for sale yet.

 

[Lithium]

I've contacted a few dealers that have the base model without DC fast charging. At most, they only had like 1 or 2 on hand though, majority had it.

Those cars will be worth about as much as a Ford Focus Electric in a few years - the slight range difference won't mean much when people realize how long it takes those cars to charge via L2.

I don't agree. 60 kWh can be refilled overnight L2 even from empty, and very few people will go through 60 kWh in a day. Except for long distance travel, larger battery capacity makes fast charging less essential.

I typically use 25 kWh in a day, rarely exceeded 40, and I drove nearly 2000 miles a month for three years. I can easily imagine never needing to fast charge a Bolt.

I agree. Just wrapped up 3 years behind the wheel of my Focus electric and currently considering my next car. I think capacity and DCFC will make an incremental difference of about 3-5% increase in my use of the car. 35,000 miles in 3 years and maybe a half a dozen times in the year I'd have to make alternative plans. Either delaying my travel by 1-2 hours to get a full charge or taking a different vehicle.

Slightly more range covers the "whole day's driving" and DCFC covers the long distance stuff. I could see owning a bolt without DCFC and operating at 98% of my driving needs. DCFC will likely get me 99.5%, partially because of a lack of infrastructure in areas I would like to travel. 60Kwh more than enough covers daily drives and L2 overnight can handle that with confidence. My take on DCFC is the more available and faster it becomes, the less capacity is an issue. Paying for 60Kwh and only using 20-50% of it is an expensive depreciating asset. The Iconiq, e-golf, or focus Electric with 115-125 miles and DCFC at 60/70kwh is probaby a very cost effective balance.

 

[JupiterMoon]

The truth of the matter is range anxiety and fast charging options are more psychological factors than anything grounded in reality.

Yes sure, some people will need fast charging and will suffer from range anxiety because they are on right side of the bell curve when it comes to miles driven with their cars.

The rest of the population drives far less and 90% of the time cars are just large heavy metal paperweights going no where.

Range anxiety has been a masterful marketing ploy and is a useful fear tactic that's been used and coined by various industries IMO to slow the adoption of alternative energy vehicles.

I can count on one finger in the last three years when DCFC would have come in handy with my Spark EV.

The whole issue of extended range is a bit like saying you need to carry a 5 gallons of water around "just in case" you get lost while you go on a 1 hour hike. Yeah it can happen....so can Trump being president.

 

[mbepic]

Yeah it can happen....so can Trump being president.

Hey, guess what, anxiety is happening throughout the land, Trump is president!

 

[JupiterMoon]

Yeah it can happen....so can Trump being president.

Hey, guess what, anxiety is happening throughout the land, Trump is president!

Yeah I know...

 

[schan2464]

We were waiting for a LT with the Comfort/Convenience and Fast Charger. Took my wife to see one of the in-stock units, and she hated the cloth seats, said they reminded her of burlap or canvas. Also didn't like the two tone color scheme. We decided to pass on the LT, and have ordered a Premier in orange with no other options. I have 3 other gas cars in the house for long trips, so the fast charger is literally wasted on us. Went with the light colored leather as she found the two tone less objectionable that way. As far as extra features that come standard on the Premier, the only ones I think may be of use are the surround view and the heated rear seat. I doubt we'll really use much else.

 

[sgt1372]

We were waiting for a LT with the Comfort/Convenience and Fast Charger. Took my wife to see one of the in-stock units, and she hated the cloth seats, said they reminded her of burlap or canvas. Also didn't like the two tone color scheme. We decided to pass on the LT, and have ordered a Premier in orange with no other options. I have 3 other gas cars in the house for long trips, so the fast charger is literally wasted on us. Went with the light colored leather as she found the two tone less objectionable that way. As far as extra features that come standard on the Premier, the only ones I think may be of use are the surround view and the heated rear seat. I doubt we'll really use much else.

Your wife hates cloth seats but likes the orange paint? Interesting.

In any event, I think you'll find the "fast" DCFC option useful when/if you need a charge while on the road. If you can find one, the 480V DC fast chargers can provide up to 200 miles/hour of charge in just 30 minutes! Something that would take 8-10 hours with a standard L2 charger.

These are the same kind of charges used by Tesla in their Supercharger network, which is the main feature that Tesla loyalists point to as making Tesla the better EV choice.

However, with production and purchase of more EV vehicles like the Bolt, independent companies like ChargePoint, EVGo and Blink are trying to install more DCFC locations and to build a network that will make long distance driving a practical alternative to non-Tesla drivers.