Business Insider - Chevy Bolt makes other EVs 'utterly irrelevant"

[carFlyer213]

The Business Insider recently did a feature on Chevy Bolt. It talks about how the Chevy bolt is making the other electric cars "utterly irrelevant". Quite an interesting read this one.

http://www.businessinsider.com/motor-trend-chevy-bolt-2016-11

 

[voltage]

Utterly irrelevant seems a bit over stated

 

[oilerlord]

Utterly irrelevant seems a bit over stated

Not sure about that. Compared with other current compliance-car, 80-100 mile EV's, the Bolt with it's 238 miles of range, in a package that meets or exceeds a Nissan Leaf or Ford Focus EV, and at roughly the same price, does make those cars irrelevant. With that in mind, which EV would you buy today with your $37,000?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I agree. The 2017 Bolt makes the 2016 Leaf utterly irrelevant going forward. We don't know what Nissan will offer for 2017, and I wouldn't count them out for too long - even if they can't match the Bolt right away, I suspect they will do something with the 2018 Leaf, releasing it as soon as they can.

The 2017 Ford Focus EV is supposed to get a modest upgrade to ~100 miles. Irrelevant at its current price.

The 2017 VW eGolf is supposed to get a boost to ~125 miles. Irrelevant at its current price.

The only way that Ford/VW and in the immediate future, Nissan, can remain relevant to the market is to drop the price of their cars. If their options can be had for <$20k, then they can still compete with a >=$30k Bolt

 

[laev]

Chevy really went all out on this one. They had great success with the Volt and now the Bolt is going to top that

 

[michael]

I agree with the article. If you read posts on other EV forums, you will still see people saying "My (whatever) is fine. 70 (or whatever) miles is all I need. But I don't see the market seeing things that way...with an EV, range is the most important thing. Charging rate follows behind. Efficiency is far less important since all EVs are so much more efficient that any ICE car.

 

[SparkE]

The EV I currently have is fine. 110 miles in town, 80m freeway covers 90-95% of my needs. I have the DCFC option, so when I drive up to San Francisco or SFO, I can 'fill up' and no range anxiety. I live in the SF Bay area, and there are level-2 and level-3 chargers ALL OVER the place. I have a family, and we have a 2nd (gas) vehicle for longer trips.

BUT - I am currently leasing (at a GREAT price!) my EV. In 2 years (give or take) I will definitely be looking at what the Bolt offers (after almost 2 years of user feedback and reliability reports). I could easily end up with an inexpensive around-town vehicle (used Spark or Smart or focus or maybe even an Arcimoto SRK), a Bolt for the freeway and family drives, and the old gasser parked on the side of the driveway, used 2-3 times a year when we go on longer trips.

Also BUT : I could also see me *not* getting a Bolt and just buying a used EV for $6-8K when my lease is up. Our current EV really does handle over 95% of our driving needs.

And : my 'compliance' EV new would have cost under $20K (close to $15K) new after all the specials (from dealer) and CA and US incentives. That's an incentive all its own, when compared to paying out almost $30K (after govt incentives). SO - I think that the current LEAF *at its current price point* is not going to sell well anymore. Either (or both) : the current LEAF will be less expensive (by at least $6K) or the new LEAF will get 200+ miles at about the same price point.

 

[oilerlord]

I agree with the article. If you read posts on other EV forums, you will still see people saying "My (whatever) is fine. 70 (or whatever) miles is all I need. But I don't see the market seeing things that way...with an EV, range is the most important thing. Charging rate follows behind. Efficiency is far less important since all EVs are so much more efficient that any ICE car.

Michael, to add to your point; people posting on EV forums - that already own an EV - understand, and accept what their 70 mile car can and cannot do, and embrace efficiency along with efficient driving habits. We are believers, the masses aren't.

Some of us also believe that the Volt is a "success". In terms of EV sales, it is. Put in perspective of mass market appeal; it's a huge disappointment. Looking at the US market, the Volt is second only behind the Model S, with about 18,500 units sold this year. By comparison, the Toyota Corolla is at 304,000, and that doesn't even begin to consider at least a dozen other Corolla ICEV clones on the market.

With that in mind, 2016 sales of EV's are at a microscopic 0.6% while ICEV's are at 99.4%. We can assume that the mass market will only accept an EV that works more or less exactly the same as a "regular" car, without the compromises we seem to minimize, and at roughly the same price. Sure, range is important but so is the overall packaging and value proposition of the car. A Chevy Sonic is nowhere near the technological achievement that the Bolt is, but it's a lot less money, and about the same size. A Sonic has virtually unlimited "range" without having to sell the buyer on the concept that they only "need" 70 miles, and that's it's OK to own a car that takes hours to fill up,. While we "get it", the masses clearly have a hard time getting past that.

 

[new2evs]

When I purchase an EV for my next vehicle or Phev not sure yet, mileage range will be the biggest point for me. I don't think I care about how fast it moves from 0 - 100km and other items like that

 

[Anonymous]

A Chevy Sonic is nowhere near the technological achievement that the Bolt is, but it's a lot less money, and about the same size. A Sonic has virtually unlimited "range"

A Tesla Model S and Ford Taurus are about the same size. One is an awesome car, the other is a boring ordinary gas car with nothing special to differentiate itself.

A Chevy Sonic and Bolt are the same size. One makes a lot of noise and smells bad running in your garage, the other accelerates like a hot hatch and is luxuriously quiet in comparison.

A Porsche 911 is about the same size as a ... etc

The comparison of size is useless. How a car drives is a very important criteria.

 

[Anonymous]

assume that the mass market will only accept an EV that works more or less exactly the same as a "regular" car, without the compromises

Compromises you say?

Gas cars are louder, smell, shake when idling, take many minutes to heat up the cabin in freezing -20C mornings, need transmissions that affect acceleration smoothness, require moving foot between two pedals constantly to operate in bumper to bumper traffic, etc.

The Tesla Model 3 will convert most test drivers to buyers.

The Bolt has every opportunity to sell well if dealers would properly charge and encourage test drives rather than redirecting people through the door to their gas SUV selection...blech.

 

[SparkE]

A Chevy Sonic is nowhere near the technological achievement that the Bolt is, but it's a lot less money, and about the same size. A Sonic has virtually unlimited "range"

A Tesla Model S and Ford Taurus are about the same size. One is an awesome car, the other is a boring ordinary gas car with nothing special to differentiate itself.

A Chevy Sonic and Bolt are the same size. One makes a lot of noise and smells bad running in your garage, the other accelerates like a hot hatch and is luxuriously quiet in comparison.

A Porsche 911 is about the same size as a ... etc

The comparison of size is useless. How a car drives is a very important criteria.

Correction : How a car drives is a very important criteria FOR YOU. My wife would have no problem driving a Ford Taurus and couldn't care less about 'the image' of a Model S, or that it corners better.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

assume that the mass market will only accept an EV that works more or less exactly the same as a "regular" car, without the compromises

Compromises you say?

Gas cars are louder, smell, shake when idling, take many minutes to heat up the cabin in freezing -20C mornings, need transmissions that affect acceleration smoothness, require moving foot between two pedals constantly to operate in bumper to bumper traffic, etc.

The Tesla Model 3 will convert most test drivers to buyers.

The Bolt has every opportunity to sell well if dealers would properly charge and encourage test drives rather than redirecting people through the door to their gas SUV selection...blech.

You forgot fueling. For myself, the Bolt would only need to be QC'd about twice a month. Each time is a single stop for about 20-30 minutes, during which time I will be getting the kids to use the restroom, and grabbing a coffee/snack. That gives me nominally 238 + 90 = 328 miles range. I don't drive farther than that more than once per year! Meanwhile, the rest of the year, I charge it overnight while I'm sleeping.

A gas car requires a weekly trip out of the way to a smell gas station. If it's winter, I have to stand out in sub-freezing temperatures for 5-10 minutes pumping gas.

For me, and many others, the Bolt is a net WIN.

 

[Anonymous]

Correction : How a car drives is a very important criteria FOR YOU. My wife would have no problem driving a Ford Taurus and couldn't care less about 'the image' of a Model S, or that it corners better.

Yeah right.

Tell you what. My wife drove our Ford Taurus for 10 years and was fine with it.
Then I switched to an electric car for my commute, she started leaving me with the gas car because the electric car (a Smart ED) was so much more fun to drive.
One year later, we traded her gas car for a Tesla Model S, and I can tell you, she's never going back to a Ford Taurus LOL!

 

[oilerlord]

A Tesla Model S and Ford Taurus are about the same size. One is an awesome car, the other is a boring ordinary gas car with nothing special to differentiate itself.

A Chevy Sonic and Bolt are the same size. One makes a lot of noise and smells bad running in your garage, the other accelerates like a hot hatch and is luxuriously quiet in comparison.

The comparison of size is useless. How a car drives is a very important criteria.

Look, I drive an EV and love it for all the reasons you've listed and more. With that said, I can also honestly and openly discuss it's shortcomings that revolve around range (which mine will be cut by up to 50% this winter), the amount of time it takes to charge, and the charging infrastructure itself. The Bolt will minimize these shortcomings, but not eliminate them. My hope is that manufacturers pay attention to forums like this one, and listen to feedback from EV drivers in the pursuit of making them better.

The reality is that rest of us will continue to buy boring, ordinary cars like Fords, Chevy Sonics, or a take advantage on a cheap lease for a compliance EV because they are value propositions that make financial sense. The market has spoken, and despite tax incentives, EV's aren't selling in any significant numbers, and ICEV's continue to comprise 99% of the cars that people buy this year. If you think that's only because we don't have a $40,000 zippy EV that can go 238 miles - you're fooling yourself.

 

[DucRider]

Look, I drive an EV and love it for all the reasons you've listed and more. With that said, I can also honestly and openly discuss it's shortcomings that revolve around range (which mine will be cut by up to 50% this winter), the amount of time it takes to charge, and the charging infrastructure itself. The Bolt will minimize these shortcomings, but not eliminate them. My hope is that manufacturers pay attention to forums like this one, and listen to feedback from EV drivers in the pursuit of making them better.

The reality is that rest of us will continue to buy boring, ordinary cars like Fords, Chevy Sonics, or a take advantage on a cheap lease for a compliance EV because they are value propositions that make financial sense. The market has spoken, and despite tax incentives, EV's aren't selling in any significant numbers, and ICEV's continue to comprise 99% of the cars that people buy this year. If you think that's only because we don't have a $40,000 zippy EV that can go 238 miles - you're fooling yourself.

You seem more than willing to ignore the shortcomings of ICE vehicles. Can't fuel at home, need stop somewhere special to do it and often wait in line. I spend more time fueling our ICE (once a month or so) than I do our EV. ICE vehicles typically have 50% more parts than an EV, many of them that are moving against each other and wear over time. Oil changes, transmission service, spark plugs, timing belts, etc, etc.
EV sales will grow as prices come down and usability and features increase. No different than flat screen displays and digital cameras. They also started as expensive options with shortcomings and a small market share. The market has NOT spoken on EV's - I don't know of anyone that would expect a new technology to garner a large percentage of sales right out of the gate.
Misinformation, sometimes well intended, is one factor slowing the adoption of EV's. "My neighbor, Fred, says EV's aren't viable because you can't drive one 1200 miles to xxx." "Do you ever do that?" "Well no. But if I wanted to, I couldn't if I had an EV!"
In actuality, you CAN make that drive in an EV - people do it all the time. It will likely take longer, but also use less fuel and create less pollution. You'll also likely interact with more people and might even see and experience different things than you otherwise would. If you're in a big hurry, an airplane makes better sense (probably why such a small percentage of people drive when they need to travel that distance).

 

[oilerlord]

You seem more than willing to ignore the shortcomings of ICE vehicles. Can't fuel at home, need stop somewhere special to do it and often wait in line.

Misinformation, sometimes well intended, is one factor slowing the adoption of EV's. "My neighbor, Fred, says EV's aren't viable because you can't drive one 1200 miles to xxx." "Do you ever do that?" "Well no. But if I wanted to, I couldn't if I had an EV!"
In actuality, you CAN make that drive in an EV - people do it all the time. It will likely take longer, but also use less fuel and create less pollution. You'll also likely interact with more people and might even see and experience different things than you otherwise would. If you're in a big hurry, an airplane makes better sense (probably why such a small percentage of people drive when they need to travel that distance).

You make a great point about misinformation. An example is telling your neighbor that you can make a 1200 mile drive in an EV and not qualifying the statement with the time and trip planning involved to make it happen. While technically true, it's also a lie of omission. So is telling your neighbor that EV ownership means not having to "stop somewhere special or wait in line" to charge your EV. While that's also true if you only charge at home, it's also a misleading statement about the current state of public charging infrastructure. People do wait at charging stations both in line, and to charge their EV's.

On that point, it's interesting that you would describe pulling into a gas station for a 3 minute fill up a "shortcoming" but waiting for 30-60 minutes or more at a DCFC is absolutely acceptable. I'm astounded at people's desire to freely and willingly waste their time - and defend doing it.

As I write this, the sun is shining, and charging my EV. The concept of a car that is fueled by sunshine not only captures people's attention but also their imaginations. I have no problem discussing all the wonderful benefits of driving electric along with their (current) shortcomings at the same time. Not sure why you have a problem with that. As a society, if we don't keep pushing manufacturers to make EV's better, then really, why should they?

 

[roundpeg]

Tip-toeing into this debate and hoping I don't regret it.

As evidently one of the few on these boards who is new to EVs I can see merit in what both of you are saying. If I do buy the Bolt I have on order it won't be with the hope or expectation that I will be taking it on our next vacation. Most of our vacation spots are too distant or remote to make that a practical consideration right now (and we have another car for that). However I would expect to use it for all of our driving with 100 miles or so of home, which around here covers a lot of useful territory. Maybe the near future will be different, but I would not buy the car on that speculation but on what I know today about its utility. The bottom line is, the range and price of the Bolt make it the first EV for me that would not require a significant lifestyle change in order to use it as my primary driver. I suspect I am not alone. A sign of things to come, I hope.

 

[oilerlord]

Duc and I get into these "debates" now and then though I know we both love our EV's and don't really want to drive any other car (unless we have to). Aside from two 1900 mile trips per year, and a handful of 200 mile trips per year to visit family, our 100 mile EV is perfect for us at least 98% of the time. 2% of the time, I drive my "other" car that handles those trips with ease.

I doubt that you'll have any issue with range, especially since it's rated at 238 miles. With that said, your range will fluctuate with how you drive, and ambient temperature. I'm expecting that worst case, my 100 mile range will become about 50 miles for a few weeks of the year where -20F and plodding through snow takes it's toll. This is the reality of driving a lithium ion battery powered EV in the cold and snow. Of course, there are things you can do to mitigate that like preconditioning the car before going out, but it's something to be aware of.

When I was researching EV's, I appreciated reading posts from people that were willing to tell it like it is. I think a lot of guys on this board take offense when I make points like the one above, and will rush in to point out the other wonderful benefits of driving an EV - which of course, I don't at all dispute. I look forward to the day that advances in battery technology, along with battery cost per kWh, and widely available public fast charging infrastructure takes the internal combustion vehicle off the road, and into museums. Sadly, we have a long way to go before that happens. The Bolt is an important step forward to that goal.

 

[roundpeg]

Right. Of course here in South California we're not worried about -20. These days 80 is considered chilly (virtually every day this month has been 90+).

I know at some point I'd chafe at the 238 mile range limit. One of our favorite getaway spots is about 170 miles away and it would be great to think I could make that trip in the Bolt, but for now, just too chancy and complicated unless you know you will be able to charge the moment you get to the hotel. Not happening, for now.

Hate to bring politics into any of this, but I think we also have to reckon with the possibility that the EV tax credits won't be around much longer and at least we would have to assume they aren't going to be expanded or extended. What this means for the EV infrastructure is probably not encouraging.