How Much I Paid for My Bolt

[roundpeg]

In my case the tax credit would be applied to capital gains. That's actually one reason why I am hoping to make the purchase this year (though I could easily have those gains next year too I know I will have enough of them this year for sure).

Yes, I know the CA rebate requires 30 months of ownership. Not usually an issue for me.

 

[ssspinball]

One other thing I forgot to mention are CARB credits. Manufacturers sometimes sell EVs at a paper loss because they make it up on their gas guzzler SUVs. GM is an example of company highly motivated by this since their SUVs are far more profitable. So the SUV buyers are effectively subsidizing some EV buyers.

My current lease has the 2 year residual set at a ridiculous 63%. The market value of the car is currently about 43% with over 7 months left. If I had financed the car at the same price, I would be in a much worse situation because I'd have paid for all of that depreciation and instead I only paid for part of it.

 

[roundpeg]

One other thing I forgot to mention are CARB credits. Manufacturers sometimes sell EVs at a paper loss because they make it up on their gas guzzler SUVs. GM is an example of company highly motivated by this since their SUVs are far more profitable. So the SUV buyers are effectively subsidizing some EV buyers.

My current lease has the 2 year residual set at a ridiculous 63%. The market value of the car is currently about 43% with over 7 months left. If I had financed the car at the same price, I would be in a much worse situation because I'd have paid for all of that depreciation and instead I only paid for part of it.

What leasing company?

Yes on the CARB credits; that's one reason why these cars turn up in compliance states, such as California, before anywhere else.

 

[gpsman]

Rebates? Incentives? Discounts?

Unless you have an iron-clad policy like employee discount or fleet bulk purchase, forgetaboutit.

This car at $37,500 is already being sold at a loss.
DUH! Of course it is being made to lower their fleet average. Of course it is for PR and image.

It is in no way a money maker for the company.
It is a GIFT at $37,500.

The incentives come from the governments involved.
Thank your lucky stars for that.
that is your discount. And an outrageous 20 to 25% discount at that.

PLEASE do not be a dickhead and banter / bicker / barter with your sales person over trying to get $200 below MSRP and free window tinting. The window tinting is the only way they will make a dime. DO NOT FORGET they are very well aware you will never be coming back for oil changes and spark plugs, mufflers and catalytic converters.

BE RESPECTFUL of the fact there is zero margin on this car for Chevy as a whole (even if they sell it to the dealer for $34,000 and sell it to you for $37,495).

Do expect great customer service.

No one with decent knowledge of what went into these cars believes they can be made for $37,500.
The technology and R&D that went into these is not in the millions of dollars. It is in the 100's of millions of dollars. At $200,000,000 invested, how many Bolts do you need to sell at $37,500 to break even? Infinate if they cost more than $37,500. 100,000 cars if there is a $2000 mark up. AND THAT's to BREAK EVEN ON MATERIAL COSTS. You'll need to sell double or triple that many to cover employees and other overhead.

Don't bicker over price of this car.
If you do, you'll only help create the sequel to "Who Killed the Electric Car." Remember: consumers played a role in the death of the EV1 20 years ago.
(As well as other facts taken together.)

Step up.
Prepare to pay a premium for a premium product.
You won't regret it. I'm sure deep down you feel it is worth it.

PS I do not work for Chevy or any car company. I work in fuel refineries. In 2005 I purchased one of the first 10,000 Ford Hybrids ever built. I paid a premium then and never regretted it a moment. That car, the Ford Escape Hybrid surpassed all my expectations. 11 years and 200,000 miles later the car (& battery) runs good as new and the car has saved me 3 or 4 times the money I spent for the "premium" model.

C'mon. This low of MSRP for the Bolt is a gift to us all.

 

[roundpeg]

Can't help noticing, you seem to be responding to an argument that nobody is making.

 

[DucRider]

One of the reasons lease residuals are so much lower on EV's is the Federal Tax Credit. Since that is available only once (when new) it effectively lowers the market value of a preowned vehicle by $7500.
Most lease estimation tools give a typical residual on a 3 year lease with 12K miles a year a residual range of 53-58%, with the average being about 55%.
Residuals are calculated from MSRP, and virtually no EV is leased at that price (if they aren't passing on the Tax Credit in the lease, it's likely time to walk away).
Bolt EV:
MSRP $37,495
Lease price (after Tax Credit) $29,995
$29,995 x 53% (EV's are not known for retaining value) = $15,897. This is a reasonable guess as to a realistic residual value.
$15,897 / $37495 = 42.4%. This would be a good ballpark residual percentage on the Bolt. Anything greater than the is almost certainly artificially high, and I would not question lower values as being unrealistic.

The problem Chevy is going to face is if they lease a base Bolt LT (no options), with a $16K residual, the lease price will be $446/m (3 yr, 12K/yr, $0 down, .00125 MF, drive off includes title, registration, acquisition fees ~$1150). Not exactly a figure they want to advertise.
They can make it appear a little better by requiring ~$2,800 down. That will get them to a $399/m lease.

Leases sell EV's. How GM structures their lease program out of the gate on the Bolt will have a big impact on it's success. I'm not interested in a $500 per month lease payment (or a big cash down payment to lower the monthly cost)

Re: negotiating a lower price.
Edmunds has a $36,030 Invoice cost on the $37,495 base version. (yes, I know there is holdback, volume incentives, etc)
Average Dealer cost to get "Authorized" to sell the Bolt will be in the $40K ballpark (DCFC @$15K+ Installation. Equipment and training for service dept, etc)

 

[roundpeg]

If I understand what you are saying, the leasing company might offer an inflated residual on an EV, but they will be hiding the tax credit in there somewhere to get to that number.

 

[bren]

You make a good point about residual value after the 7.5k tax credit is used. But I have a few comments - My calcs with the same numbers (37.5k,0 down, 36 mo, .00125, 7.5k taxed incentive) come up with a monthly pmt of $466 PLUS tax, which would be over $500 in CA. Drive off $1,670 (508 1st mo, 480 reg/doc, 682 cap cost red tax)
This number is way too high for Chevy to move a car that will mostly be leased.

Chevy and Ford have had low residuals for their EVs (40-42%) in the past, but will need to inflate this to keep up with cars like the Fiat 500e and BMW i3, which are offering "unrealistic" residuals in the high 50%. Or provide more cash incentive, as when the Spark was introduced. At the risk of being pedantic, the 7.5K tax credit only goes to the leasing company, and consumer pass-through is really optional lease cash. BMW did not offer the 7.5k cash for the first couple of months when the 2017 i3 terms were announced, in order to finish selling their 2016s. Yes, mfgs are taking a huge financial hit on these EVs if they want aggressive sales, (Fiat's CEO has been very outspoken about loosing 14K on every EV sold).
Whatever the business reason for mfg an EV (in Fiat's case it was to meet CA compliance goals), the time is still not here where they can compete on an even field with gas cars. The 7.5K tax credit would normally make purchasing a car attractive - but with a technology that is still developing, long-term reliability questions, and range/infrastructure hurdles, these are going to be low-to-no-margin mostly-leased vehicles for a few years.
My 2c.

 

[roundpeg]

The tax credit only goes to the leasing company if the car is leased. Otherwise it goes to the buyer (or against their federal tax liability to be perfectly accurate). The value of the tax credit in a 36-month lease situation should come out to $208/month in favor of the lessor. By my arithmetic, 50% depreciation (assuming $40k MSRP) over that same time period, minus the value of the credit, should pencil out to a lease payment of around $350. I conclude above that number is probably not a good deal for the buyer, unless they can't afford the car any other way.

 

[leodoggie]

I ordered my bolt last week, what surprised me was the total out of the door price. After adding the options tax doc fees etc I came up with a price of $49,000, with the deduction of federal and state rebates this comes to $39,000. This is not the affordable car price I had expected, also the good guesstimates on this forum that put lease costs at some where between $400-$500 a month, the cost of ownership has become a possible deal killer. I would very much like some perspective from other members on this.

 

[devbolt]

I ordered my bolt last week, what surprised me was the total out of the door price. After adding the options tax doc fees etc I came up with a price of $49,000, with the deduction of federal and state rebates this comes to $39,000. This is not the affordable car price I had expected, also the good guesstimates on this forum that put lease costs at some where between $400-$500 a month, the cost of ownership has become a possible deal killer. I would very much like some perspective from other members on this.

Yeah, I had the same epiphany as you did. I had failed to take into account pesky things like a 9% sales tax rate, and registration fees. Thankfully, registration fees are only about $400, but the sales tax is nearly 4 grand. Ouch. I did voluntarily opt for the more expensive model with all the options, so that's about $5K of additional cost.

 

[DucRider]

The tax credit only goes to the leasing company if the car is leased. Otherwise it goes to the buyer (or against their federal tax liability to be perfectly accurate). The value of the tax credit in a 36-month lease situation should come out to $208/month in favor of the lessor. By my arithmetic, 50% depreciation (assuming $40k MSRP) over that same time period, minus the value of the credit, should pencil out to a lease payment of around $350. I conclude above that number is probably not a good deal for the buyer, unless they can't afford the car any other way.

Your math to get to the $350 is correct - but that is only for the depreciation portion of the lease.
You will also pay interest on the amount of the car that is financed - in your example $40K-$7500 = $32,500. In essence you are borrowing that amount for 3 years and making interest only payments on it. You may also have doc fees, acquisition fees, disposition fees, tax, title, registration, etc. These will either be paid as part of the "drive off" or added to the amount financed thru the lease.

 

[roundpeg]

I take your point but obviously tax, title and registration costs aren't unique to leasing. Some of the others are, though, and those are the ones that scare me off leasing, unless the manufacturer is willing to effectively subsidize the cost of the car through an artificially high residual. I'm thinking that's unlikely at least at this stage of the game. But having never leased before or purchased an EV I have no data to lean on, just a guess.

 

[BoltyMcBoltFace]

leodoggie wrote:
I ordered my bolt last week, what surprised me was the total out of the door price. After adding the options tax doc fees etc I came up with a price of $49,000, with the deduction of federal and state rebates this comes to $39,000. This is not the affordable car price I had expected

To get to that price, you must have ordered a Premier with most of the options. I started doing the same exercise and realized what I wanted would be over $45,000 out the door, but I also realized it wasn't exactly fair to add thousands in options and then complain that it's no longer affordable.

Then I went and bought a Spark EV. A third of the range, not so many of the bells and whistles, but $22,000 out the door and almost half of that coming back in rebates. In my life, it can do 95% of what the Bolt could, so it just made sense. I'm still looking at the Bolt and there's a good chance I'll wind up with one some day, but not yet.

 

[michael]

My impression is that a Bolt has a sticker price about $4K more than a comparably equipped Volt. So assuming similar discounts, residual, etc, the lease payments would be about $65/month more.

In California, the Bolt would qualify for an additional $1K in state money, so the net difference would be more like $30/month. In my mind, if it actually works out that way, well worth it

 

[roundpeg]

My impression is that a Bolt has a sticker price about $4K more than a comparably equipped Volt. So assuming similar discounts, residual, etc, the lease payments would be about $65/month more.

In California, the Bolt would qualify for an additional $1K in state money, so the net difference would be more like $30/month. In my mind, if it actually works out that way, well worth it

As a BEV the Bolt should qualify for the $2,500 rebate in California, possibly more depending on income qualifications (or potentially nothing if your income is too high). It isn't on the qualified list yet but should be added in November. I don't think leasing companies can claim the California rebate. I believe it's only available to the buyer.

 

[michael]

Right. The point is the $1500 that California pays to the end user of a Volt effectively lowers the monthly payment $42 per month over 36 months, while the $2500 paid for a Bolt will lower the effective monthly payment $69 per month, a difference of $27

 

[roundpeg]

Ok, I get it now. Right.

 

[oilerlord]

leodoggie wrote:
I ordered my bolt last week, what surprised me was the total out of the door price. After adding the options tax doc fees etc I came up with a price of $49,000, with the deduction of federal and state rebates this comes to $39,000. This is not the affordable car price I had expected

To get to that price, you must have ordered a Premier with most of the options. I started doing the same exercise and realized what I wanted would be over $45,000 out the door, but I also realized it wasn't exactly fair to add thousands in options and then complain that it's no longer affordable.

Then I went and bought a Spark EV. A third of the range, not so many of the bells and whistles, but $22,000 out the door and almost half of that coming back in rebates. In my life, it can do 95% of what the Bolt could, so it just made sense. I'm still looking at the Bolt and there's a good chance I'll wind up with one some day, but not yet.

Yup.

At that price, and with Spark EV leases as low as $79 per month, the financial case for a $45,000 car becomes dubious assuming the car fits your lifestyle.

"EV fans can jump on such lease deals as a 2015 Ford Focus Electric at $88 per month for 36 months with $1,888 down, plus additional fees due at signing, at Serramonte Ford in Colma, California; a 2016 Nissan Leaf S at $89 per month for 36 months with $3,500 down at Hayward Nissan in Hayward, California; and a 2016 Chevrolet Spark EV advertised by Fremont Chevrolet in Fremont, California, at $79 per month for 36 months with $1,450 due at signing."

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/dealerships-offer-lease-deals-for-less-than-100-per-month.html

 

[Anonymous]

Feature

Premier Version 2LZ $40,905
Destination Charge $875
Stock Color White GAZ $-
Fast Charge CBT $750
Driver Confidence Package WPR $495
Infotainment Package JSA $485
Sub Total $43,510

Bob Stall Chevrolet in La Mesa, CA. Haven't Paid yet except for $500 reservation down payment. Was just told that my car will be built in the week of 11/28 and probably a week of QA inspection and 2 weeks rail shipping from Michigan to CA.